to have felt humiliated at being referred to as a houseperson

[OrkaLiely]

Went to get a new phone yesterday. The sales assistant was entering my details and asked what my job was. I suppose I'm a SAHM but that wasn't an option so she selected "houseperson". It just didn't sound right I would have preferred housewife to such a weird gender neutral term.

Then I failed the credit check because, despite having no debts or loans, I have no credit history because I've been a houseperson for so long

I will raise DD with yesterday's experience in mind.

I just checked this in the OED, and it's not so cut and dried. Unemployed doesn't seem specifically to mean "not in paid employment", rather "not occupied" - thus we have the term paid employment to allow for the distinction, I suppose. Employed derived from the idea of being directed towards something, ie focussed/occupied with something. So you could argue quite sensibly that you're more employed as a mother than a wife. At least that's true for me!

Technically, in govt terms it means claiming benefits, I think, as this is why SAHPs are not included in unemployment stats.

No. The definintion of unemployed is not being employed

Perhaps the SAHPs who believe they are employed could let me know by whom they are employed?

It is a simple fact if you are not employed you are unemployed.

Unfortuantly some people attatch a judgement to that term and seem to think that means they can ignore its meaning.

But it depends what you mean by employed, that's what I'm saying. You're saying that the only definition of employment is paid employment, and I'm saying that's not true - we wouldn't have the term paid emplyment in that case.

ie you can be employed in an activity, not necessarily in another's employ.

"Unemployment stats" aren't really measuring unemployment, rather those signed on the live register.

Meanings are not set in stone, anyway. Very few words outside of science don't have fuzzy meanings.

"ie you can be employed in an activity, not necessarily in another's employ."

Of course you can, but in the context of a credit provider wanting to know your job, they don't really care if you're employed with macrame or horse whispering, if you aren't being paid for it!

Well, yes, paranoid, that's why a common understanding of the term unemployed is those out of work, seeking it and claiming benefits. Given that that's the meaning used by the media a politicians to a large extent, it's hardly surprising that it should be understood as one well-used and known meaning of the term. This is, after all, how language evolves.

But I think it does - it's perfectly possible that a credit provider might worry more about a person on benefits being able to keep up payments than one with a sufficient household income to be able to be a SAHP.

Well using that definition habbibu those who do not have a paid job and are claming jobseekers allowance are employed as they are occupied by seeking work

So who are these SAHPs employed by?

Or are you just saying they are employed because they are occupied? That is rather a pointless definition as everyone is "occupied". SAHPs are not employed, nor are volunteers or the retired. It doesn't matter how busy they are.

It really is very simple

That's true, but I guess it's more nuanced than that - perhaps that's what we might consider a better distinction anyway - those seeking work, as opposed to those otherwise occupied. I suppose if you have a massive trust fund you could be not seeking work and not employed in anything but watching Jeremy Kyle on a big gold tv. But maybe you wouldn't be applying for credit anyway.

I do think that there is a distinction which is relevant when applying for credit - it's about perception of level and stability of income.

I don't think it is that simple, that's all I'm saying. there are connotations to words, widely used within society and media, and these can affect how people see you and, I suspect, whether they think you're credit worthy.

A SAHP has no income - not in terms of applying for credit. There is family income of course but not personal income so SAHP is very unlikely to given credit solely in their name.

No. that is because unemployment figures refer to people on benefits. They exist for a specific purpose

But as a SAHP you are not employed. You do not have an employer, you are not paid a wage for the work you do.

I am a mother. It is not my employment. It is not anyones employment.

A SAHP is not employed.

Am nit sure why that seems contentious

And would I not tick the 'mother' box, even though I am indeed a mother, because I am in full time employment?

I do understand SAHMs not wanting to say you're unemployed though. It's a pyschological/emotional thing. It sounds like you just ain't doing much.

I can understand that, but I think thay's attatching a judgement to a word.

If you arw not employed and a form asks about your employment I think unemployed is accurate and correct for that purpose even if you wouldnt describe yourself that way in normal conversation.

Personally I think it sounds better than houseperson - which is just odd

It could be said that job-seeking is a different category than unemployed.

But anyway, all this nuance and evolving language stuff is immaterial, since it is all about CONTEXT. And in the context of the OP, SAHP, unemployed, jobseeking, lady of leisure or volunteer are all much of a muchness, since what matters is PAID or UNPAID, with money or without.

Simple as that.

Yes but we all know language is emotive. But yes I agree I would rather be almost anything than a 'houseperson' if I was a SAHM!

which dictionary is that?

BTW, just out of interest, how does one "theoretically" seek employment? Surely it requires concious and active effort?

Fine - use "not employed" then

I think people seem worried people might mistake them for someone "on benefits"

For the purposes of applying for credit though, a SAHP or full time volunteer does not have an income which is what the form is trying to determine. A student, person on benefits, pensioner, or person with private income does. .