to boycott shops that use forced unpaid labour (aka slavery)?

[ChickenLickn]

These stores:

Boots,
Tesco,
Asda,
Primark,
Argos,
TK Maxx,
Poundland,
Arcadia group of stores run by billionaire Sir Philip Green, which includes Top Shop and Burton,

are all using 'workfare' schemes, forcing jobseekers to work 30 hrs/week unpaid for 6 months in profit making companies or face losing their jobseekers benefits. Mre details here.

Please avoid shopping in these shops as much as possible, this is basically slavery and is illegal under human rights law (and currently being challenged in the courts).

The good news is that Waterstones and Sainsburys have recently pulled out of the scheme.

so what's the medium term goal for those people then? hold out for something akin to past career?, or get back to paid employment in the short/medium term while working on getting past career back on track (if desired!). A plumber with no retail experience might well struggle to fill the gap while they get their business back online, but one with 6 months retail experience can get a retail job to tide them over for a year or so while they work on building up a buisness again (retail is quite good for this because of evening shifts, a lot of self employed people do retail because they can have mornings off to do their first jobs).

And just because someone used to be a teacher or a plumber doesn't mean they'll ever go back to it

or they might think they don't want to go back to what they trained in, but hate the retail experience so much they decide teaching wasn't so bad and get motivated again to really push the job hunting in that area

or they might unexpectedly find out they like it

you know some people do actually enjoy shelf stacking (maybe after years of marking at home and then being able to clock off) and working in nursing holmes, and manual labour. Some people doing these jobs left professional careers and enjoy less responsibility and "clocking off"

all of the above is preferable to 6 month of no work right?

You can have had a career, good income and become unemployed. How is working in a care home or shop going to help the former marketing director? The secretary? The skilled worker? The audio typist etc etc etc?

I think you are the one making assumptions about other people's assumptions

Can you really not imagine how working in a care home might be of value?, it's not a meaningless job! it might inspire someone to re-train, all kinds of people work by choice in care, maybe YOU are making assumptions about who is suitable for these kinds of jobs, is care work really not suitable for educated experienced people? really? so who is it for?

and when I worked in retail I worked with ex and current teachers, managers of various businesses, own business owners, nurses, graduates of various kinds, all who fancied a change or to whom retail appealed in some way.

It is not beneath those with experience and eduation, It is not of no value to someone just because they've done something in the past that you think is better. (after years of never leaving work on time there's nothing better than clocking off I can tell you! )

Good question about the medium term. It is what makes me go eh? It's costing us (the tax payer) money but it isn't doing anything other than massaging the unemployment figures and handing cash to big business. Tesco makes £14000 NET PROFIT per employee per year. They don't need any more of our money.

Who says these people are doing no work? There was a case in the news recently about a graduate who was told to do Workfare in Poundland or lose benefits. She volunteers already but because it's not on "the list" it's not acceptable.

I am all for helping people who are hopeless and downtrodden into work. I am a for supportive work schemes to give people a chance they wouldn't otherwise have had. But Workfare doesn't do that. The numbers do not add up.

I do not believe that even the most internally motivated person wants to work for less than minimum wage instead of being a paid employee regardless of previous working history, skills or qualifications.

Real jobs are being filled with Workfare workers instead of paid employees. Everybody loses out.

I didn't say those jobs were not of value. My point is the opposite. They are extremely valuable to the worker, the tax payer and the wider economy. That is why filling them with unpaid workers is a disgrace. They deserve to be filled by employees with full employment rights.

RRR you are also talking about decisions taken by people of their own free will. Very different to being forced to do something.

You can do whatever you like.

Just out of curiosity, are you posting from your stone tablet and chisel or using the slave labour of Africa (for your screen) and China for the assembly of your machine?

Bit of a straw man you've got there AP?

Morning katie, you're a worse sleeper than me! ;)

I do think these schemes are bloody awful, Philip green and his ilk a bunch of arses, tax credits paying wages, people who arrange these schemes making millions, it's all shit - but it's still all a bit hypocritical. :/ we're all doomed!

I'm with you OP. I was talking to DH the other day about this as we feel very sad this and the other monumental cock-ups that are taking place at the moment - I would say 'fag packet politics' but I think 'Moet & Chandon label politics' is probably more apt.
My thoughts are:

1. Work experience - hmm - 6 months?? Is 2 week's not sufficient for someone to find out if they like an industry or not?
2. The companies on the list - let me see - oh yes, all the ones (apart from the banks of course) that are actually making profits. Even more profits now, it seems.
3. The unemployed numbers. Still keep going up. Those brilliant workfare schemes are really working well at getting those figures down, aren't they?
4. Internships - same principle. Just allows businesses to exploit graduates as well as/instead of non-graduates.
5. Er, actually, have you tried going to a job interview outside of standard work hours? I think that could possibly impinge on your ability to get a job when your full-time attendance is compulsory.
6. Choice? They have a CHOICE whether to work for a grand £67.50 a week (which works out at £1.92/hour roughly) or to not do as they're told, lose said £67.50 a week and starve even more. You try paying your bills and food with that. It's been a hell of a long time since I had to, and I hope that I never have to again, but it's not a mean feat. That would barely cover our gas, electricity and water here.

Like the victimization and demonization of the disabled & the cuts made to their benefits, like the stupid plans for CB, like the completely bonkers proposal for the NHS that even their own party is rebelling against, it all just adds up to a big fat cock-up.
I'm not saying that Labour are/have been/would be any better - but at least they didn't take us back to Victorian Britain!

Chocolate slavery. The estimate is that most chocolate is tainted by slavery. Not adult, first world people who have difficult and unpleasant choices. I don't like the system you are talking about but please don't refer to it as slavery.

It's not bloody slavery. What a ridiculous thing to say.

My Dad has been unemployed for ages after being made redundant. He went to volunteer in a BHF charity shop and really enjoyed himself. He no longer has to work there to keep his JSA but still does a day a week and will go in to cover if he's needed.

He has been ill and the job centre told him to stop looking for jobs until the doctors and specialists gave him the all clear but he's kept up going to the shop to help out.

So tell me how that's slavery. If they actually wanted to work then they wouldn't care about doing a bit of voluntary work somewhere.

What a load of bollocks. I have 11 O levels, 3 A levels and a business degree. I am out of work. I have a small mortgage on a big house in West London. I like to stay at home. Go fuck yourselves.

YABU. I have also done a lot of unpaid work to gain experience and future work from it. It gives people confidence that not only can they get a job but they can do the job and it ultimately makes them more employable in the future with relevant experience.

YABU, VU in fact. A decent length stint St work is the best way to show someone is employable and to teach them the skills required for work. Having an inexperienced or long-out-of-work employee usually eats up a lot of management time (have you ever managed a graduate trainee or similar?) even when they are keen and reasonably qualified for the role, so companies do need incentives to participate in these schemes.
And to whomever asked whether 2 weeks aren't long enough: you miss the point completely. It's not about liking a job, it's about improving the chances of getting a paid job at the end by having the opportunity to demonstrate having the abilities required, such as turning up on time, following instructions, sticking with a task even when you are tired or cannot be bothered, working with others, organising your time, etc.

Ludicrous point about going to interviews during the working day: interviews for people who are already employed can be arranged outside of that person's working hours if the candidate looks like a possible hire.
OP: I am interested to understand the circumstances that lead you to your beliefs. What sort of job and education do you have?

I have nonissue with people working for their benefits -I think it is both sensible and appropriate.

I do have a problem with how that has translated into us the tax payer adding to the profits of companies like Tesco

From the way I understood it, they are not unpaid. They are still receiving benefits. As other posters have said, Working for these companies gives them something to put on their CVs and show that they are employed. It gives them a taste of actually going to work and broadens their horizons, giving them a pride of self-esteem and pride at having a job.

*bit of self-esteem

The trouble is most of these people don't want a job and are happy to stay unskilled to keep enabling a life of not working. If they were happy to have a job they would take the opportunity to grasp experience with both hands.

And I put that into perspective with an 18yo I know who did all the foot work, offering to work for a week for free on the proviso that if they liked what he did at the end of the week they would consider hiring him. He had a job at the end of the first day.

YABU my brother did it and as well as having a reason to get up in the morning, he gained work experience & a full time, full paid job at the end of it. One year on he's still happy & proud, rather than a depressed insomniac.

Suggest you google slavery, warning you may be shocked.

Yanbu. As some of these, very rich, companies have NO intention of taking them on no matter how hard they work. They just replace them at the end.

And WE 'RE subsiding it - walmart and tesco ?!?

Another 'rewarding the already wealthy' story.

I think it's bollocks. And it enrages me.

I'm a qualified teacher with lots of experience. There are NO JOBS. None. (weekly checking of my LEA and the neighbouring one).

So I spent most of last year working in a shop for a loss, after child care and travel. If it had been a "career" job, I would have taken the hit. But it wasn't, it was a zero hour contract 35 fricking miles away. For £6.08 an hour. And I have been told that it has damaged my CV.

So I'm doing tutoring instead. Self-employed. Am actually better off in real terms. Low-paid shop work was bad enough, unpaid? Worthless.

Oh - and as for you talking about graduate internships and apprenticeships etc - that's all well and good if you have family or a partner that is both willing and able to support you in the meantime. Unpaid work placements are impossible when you are the main earner, or are trying to support a family, or have no other financial support.

How are you meant to FEED your family while you do the unpaid 'training'?

And also, it is physically impossible to retrain in anything when you are on benefits now - there is no help with childcare costs for Lone Parents, which stops all those LP's with no family childcare from retraining due to the extremely high costs of childcare here. If you are a couple, then neiter of you can retrain - the main claimant because they have to show that they have spent 35 hrs a week SEEKING work, and the other claimant because they are carrying out the childcare.

So you can't better yourself even if you WANT to. There isn't even any childcare help for BASIC numeracy and literacy courses any more. So if, for whatever reason, you left school totally illiterate, and you want to go on a course to enable yourself to be remotely employable - once you have a child, you CAN'T.

It's the lack of affordable or subsidised childcare that stops people from being able to better themselves.

And to people that say that THEY have worked unpaid - YOU have the opportunity to work for nothing to gain a qualification, in order to further your career. Because you have a PARTNER that is willing AND able to financially support you while you do so. Or family. Or you have affordable, available childcare to take on a SECOND job. While you may be struggling with 'extra's' due to this - you can still feed your dc, and pay your utility bills. Someone whose partner earns just £11,856 CAN'T afford to do that while their partner gains experience and qualifications. A Lone Parent can't do that - because there IS no-one there to financially support them while they do that.

And if you are doing workfare in a NMW job - it DOESN'T get you any qualifications, it DOESN'T make you any more employable (most people do workfare in an area they already have experience in, so that the employer doesn't have to spend any money training them.), And it doesn't 'further your career'. If all you are qualified for, or are capable of, is NMW work - then doing workfare IS devaluing your labour.

I can't understand why certain people think it is so EASY to retrain. Where is the money meant to COME from? What are you meant to do with your dc while you attend college?

You do also know that once your dc are school-age, you are expected to transfer to Jobseekers allowance - that doesn't allow you to be training, because you are then classed as not ACTIVELY SEEKING WORK. So it's not even as if you can spend a year or two training once your dc start school. And then you have to add in travelling times to college (my own personal problem with retraining), as public transport takes so much time to get where the college actually IS.

I WANT to retrain (as my previous qualifications are not transferrable, and I'm barred by law from my previous profession). I CAN'T. Because the college is TWO buses, and an hour and a half away from my house. The breakfast club at my DS's primary school doesn't OPEN early enough for me to get to the college by the start time of the course. And that's without wondering exactly WHERE I would find the (non-existant) money to PAY the breakfast AND after-school club. Which, btw, I wouldn't be able to get to by 6pm as the course I need to do doesn't finish until 5pm. With a travel time of 1.5hrs...

It's NOT that easy to retrain when you are struggling to afford FOOD and UTILITIES, nowhere NEAR as easy as you think. And I am a fairly literate person, who has been previously educated to a high level, just needs to retrain for reasons beyond my control. Without that retraining, I can only get NMW jobs. With NO career progression. So I WISH people would look at the REALITIES of telling people that they can retrain, and get a better job. For the VAST majority of people on NMW - NO THEY CAN'T.

There is NO help for retraining - or even for gaining basic literacy and numeracy skills now - and it HAS got worse since the current Government got in. They have cut what was bare-bones funding for childcare for retraining LP's to nothing. There IS no help. For those at the bottom of the pile, it is even HARDER now to pull themselves up by their bootstraps. And being made to work for almost 1/6th of NMW ISN'T going to improve their situation any either. It just lowers the jobs that ARE available to them at NMW.

Workfare will NOT help people back into work. It will help big businesses to save on their wage bill, and increase their profit margins, by using FORCED LABOUR. It is ideological. Done under the guise of 'helping' people back to work. When all it is doing is further limiting the already limited options for NMW workers.

CrunchyFrog - I agree. If it was doing Workfare in an area that got you a career at the end of it, then more people would be willing. If it is to do a 6 month placement in a job that will have NO career progression over and above NMW - WHAT is the point??

If your natural level is entry-level retail work - HOW is the fact that Tesco's and Asda can get UNPAID workers to do the job EVER going to help you to get a PAID job there?

All it is doing is enabling Tescos et al to avoid hiring PAID employees to do the job, to avoid having to give people their employees rights.

How would you like to be FORCED to work in a retail job for 6 months (Possibly up to 3 yearsif this Government get their own way) IF you had NO right to proper breaks (down to the discretion of the employer - so you COULD work an 8-hr shift with NO break, can and has happened), no right to time off sick, no right to maternity or paternity leave (which is an issue because when UC comes in, you will lose the protection you currently get from being transferred to IS when you are 29 weeks pg - so someone 39 weeks pg could be forced to do workfare, then not entitled to ANY maternity leave), no right to parental leave (which could mean a Lone Parent having to leave their child ALONE in hospital in order to attend a Workfare placement), no right to chose your shift pattern (There have been cases of women being forced to do night shifts on workfare and they have then been ATTACKED on their walk home).

HOW in the name of HELL is any of that going to HELP you to get paid employment if, as in my area, there hasn't been a SINGLE supermarket job advertised in over 15 months - because they are all going to Workfare people.