to be a bit confused by the moaning about 'cliques'

[bejeezus]

there has been quite a few threads during my time on MN,both in AIBU and in Relationships complaining about cliques,usually in a 'school run' context or on-line.

I'm not denying that the school-run is a fairly un-pleasant social phenomenabut what really is a clique? do they exist? Arent they just friendship groups? ANd what even are they? Its not a club with membership. Itsjust friends who have friends in common. the more friends you have in common the more centralto 'the group' you become. It follows that if you are friendlywith oneor two people,then you would appear to be on the periphery. You may or may not be invited to social gatherings depending on who organised it and whether you are freinds with that individual.

Friendships exist because the people enjoy each others company/have a laugh/have interests incommon/support each other. People are not friends so that they can make the people they are not friends with feel excluded/uncomfortable/miserable. Having many friends doesnt mean you are a complete bitch, it normally indicates that you are quite a nice/friendly/happy/positive/caring person.

What do the people who moan about 'cliques' want the other people to do? Stop having friendships so they feel better about themselves? Limit their number of friendships? Only be friends with them? From my POV the ones berating cliques are doing it from anenvious stance, because THEY want to be included? So if they were included would a clique then be deemed acceptable?

I don't write this as someone in the middle of a big friendship group BTW

yes these sorts of cliques exist but they are just friends like you said , Im not sure what your Big word means But feeling like an outsider can be really daunting for people especially if the Cliques are into all the school activities so really they are the in crowd , some people couldnt give a hoot about it but for some it really bothers them and they feel excluded and sometimes intimidated by it , they feel uncomfortable but know they shouldnt be bothering , groups of people arnt unusual and its starts in schools . I was in the couldnt give a flyin frig about it It really didnt bother me at all ,

I think the key difference between a clique and a group of friends is bitchiness. I would say a clique is like a coven of witches, an exclusive group that look down their noses at others, won't speak to others outside of their little circle and that constantly bitch about others not in (and often in!) their clique.

I wouldn't want to be part of something that is anything remotely like what I have described above, and generally the people that participate in that sort of thing aren't my type of person anyway.

I don't think you're being fair to witches there, Hex - how do you know that they bitch about and look down on non-coven people? mostly I thought they just got together to drink tea, brew potions, dance naked in the moonlight and commune with the spirits - don't remember too much about bitching and snobbiness being suggested...

Well this is true, Thumbwitch

This type of thread comes up over and over and over and over- the is more talk of not understanding cliques than there are accusations of them existing. It happens on ALL Internet forums. Why not stop worrying about in until some niave green forum user actually does start a thread talking about cliques, THEN worry about defending them.

Oh cliques exist, but some friendship groups are perceived as cliques by people who are insecure, which is why, like Le Queen I make an effort with everyone, because we all feel insecure at times.

I am sin a friendship group but actually I'm not 100% comfortable with being in a group. I prefer 1:1.

I think you'll find the OP was more referring to RL cliques, Serenity.

Are you talking about the spa at The Grove? I've avoided it because of the VB thing!

I also agree with someone upthread who was moaning about people making social arrangements in front of you, to which you aren't invited. I have a couple of friends who do this. Rude.

I feel the same way as LeQueen. I've got no time for bitching. I'm polite to people but rather than ignore it when they bitch about other people I will distance myself. I think it's some kind of passive reinforcement to listen and not challenge the comments. It's also passive to get out of earshot so that you don't have to challenge, but I'd rather not get involved so that's my way.

I've never been part of a clique, to my knowledge. I can't say it bothers me because I'm confident that being myself is enough.

I am exactly the same, LeQueen. I really cannot be bothered with most parents at the school gate. I have several that I would call friends, generally people I knew pre-children anyway but the others are just acquaintances. I say hello, but really do try to avoid even the random small talk as 9 times out of 10 I cannot be bothered with it.

The Princesses used to wear tiaras out when we were in our 20s! But they still call each other Princess So-and-so and we are edging into our 40s. It's very amusing. I hope they don't read this and dish out another shunning hahaa

Just to make it clear, if I am in toddler group or outside nursery or school I shouldn't talk to my friends about plans to meet up, or things we've done together, although this may be the only time we are all in one place to discuss plans, or we need to convey last minute changes to plans etc, in case someone else feels left out?

if someone else approached and said I would like to come too, and I was in a position to say yes, ie it was in a public place not a friends house, then I would say the more the merrier.

If a clique is a group of bitches why would anyone care? I don't get it, why would a grown woman who is happy in her self care what other people think, or want to be a part of that?

Beamae, they sound just lovely! ok, that is definitely a clique!!! When there's a 'uniform' & nicknames! I honestly haven't met anyone like that, thank god! I can't imagine how to hold a conversation with them, not that humble old peasantmonkey would be granted that favour.

Some people feel powerful and in control when they are able to exclude others, these people like to be in cliques. Others just find themselves accidentally embroiled, whether from loneliness or whatever and the games begin.

YABU to not get it, friendship groups are not based around exclusion. I am sure that lots of things happen that are beyond your experience.

Nailak - I totally agree I can not believe the unthread comment re how fb & phones make this 'behaviour' unnecessary! I'll talk to who I want when I want about what I damn well please. I'd definitely try to avoid talking directly across someone who wouldn't be invited, out of courtesy. on the last thread the act of talking out of earshot of those perceived to excluded was also frowned upon, so coded messages?

it is just good manners to not make people feel excluded

the clique I know arrange their meetups via facebook walls which they then delete, or at least they did until I hid the lot of them

they only reason they do this rather than using text messages, email or the facebook messaging system is to broadcast that they are the in crowd and to make sure that others know they are excluded. It is the same as the braying at the school gates.

I don't personally care that they do it, they know I have no interest in their petty heirarchy - but I've seen other women reduced to tears by these silly games. The people they pick on are often the ones going through a hard time anyway, and it is the reasons that they don't 'make' the clique, that make them vulnerable to the spiteful behaviour.

I think cliques make people feel that they have to conform in some way to be accepted...

They are generally quite nasty, exclusive and bitchy!
Totally different to a group of close friends...as those involved in a clique often feel they have to defend each other...even if that other member is behaving in a way that doesn't deserve defending....towards someone outside of the 'clique'.

Internet cliques will often gang up on a person with a view contrary to their own....which frequently amounts to bullying.

I suppose people are just different....

Some take pleasure in upsetting other people (relishing the power that they have over that person and being desperate to be popular) and others enjoy making new genuine friendship, being kind, helpful and everything else that genuine friendship entails.