Parents helping in changing rooms at school swimming lesson.

[TattiePants]

DS is in yr 1 and his class have swimming lessons this year. Parents are invited to watch the lesson and are also encouraged to help out in the changing rooms before and after the lesson. In yr 1 this tends to be more ordering encouraging them to do it themselves than drying /dressing them but last year it was more 'hands-on'.

Actually when I say parents help out, what I really mean is mums. Due to pressure from other parents, the school only allow mums in the changing rooms, although dads can and do observe the lesson.

AIBU to think this is mad and out-dated. As a mum why am I less of a threat to 5 and 6 yr olds than DH? I understand that some dads may feel uncomfortable in this situation but surely they should have the choice. BTW there is always a teacher / TA in the changing room.

I was CRB checked to listen to the children read at school. I was then promptly asked along to everything to help out; school trips, activities, and swimming lessons. There is a ratio requirement and they don't have that many teachers or TA's.

I've helped out with two different year groups for swimming. I've helped both girls and boys get changed. I don't think it even occurred to anybody to question it. It certainly didn't occur to me. Most of the kids can get themselves dry and changed in a few minutes, ages from 5-7, but they need a bit of chivvying up. All the kids know me from reading and activities. And from play dates, both groups were my dc's classes.

Although now I think about it, with the older kids, the boys got changed in pairs in cubicles and the girls got changed in big groups in the changing rooms. And all the staff / parents were female. Perhaps the teacher had thought about it.

I'm so old I was teaching way before CRB or DBS checks were around. I used to take Y1 & Y2 swimming and relied on parent helpers. Maybe children have become more independent, but hardly any of my Y1 children could dry themselves and trying to get dressed when you're not really dry is really hard, clothes stick and won't go on properly.
I was very grateful for all those parent helpers.

my dd goes to an all girls school. when they go swimming only the mums help. she wouldn't want to get changed in front of any dad's to be honest she is going through a very shy stage and has made a distinction even at home between changing in front of women or men. it's not something I have ever talked to her about she decided this herself.

I think the CRB thing is very important to cover everyone's backsides (so to speak). If a parent had a conviction for something, was allowed to help and an incident occurred, the school would be up the creek. Of course a CRB only checks who has been caught, not who has intentions of perversion or harm.

But that aside, in our school (older children), the parents were needed to take the children to the toilets, as that was separate from the changing rooms, to remind them to wash their hands and put on bathing caps.

But as a parent I would be fine having another child's dads help my DD if she needed it. Now that my DD is 8 she would only need help to do bathing cap, nothing "personal"... but even at younger age it wouldn't have caused me any angst.

Children over 4 have to go to the same sex change rooms in the gym where we swim.
So, no boys over 4 in the women's and no girls over 4 in the men's.
This is to protect children and adults.

I think this is right. Children are reaching puberty earlier and earlier these days, and it's better to have segregation.

I wouldn't want a DH in my Dds change room, or any boy over 4.

It makes sense to have segregated rooms, for the adults' sake, and protection, as well as the childrens'.

Children over 4? Wow. I don't think that's the right cut-off age.

Year 5 and 6 children should be able to dry and dress the selfs f not then I suggest the school concentrate on why chikdren of 9 and 10 years old cannot and my sons swimming club parents are not allowed in the changing room and even the baby class 6 years old mange to get themselfs sorted the issue here is not being CRB it's that a child of 10 is not able to get dried and changed with out supervision

Do all these volunteers have safeguarding training?
Are they aware of the signs and symptoms of abuse?
Do they know what to do in the event of a child disclosing information?
Do they know who to report concerns to?
Do they know the schools safeguarding procedure?
What would they do of they suspected a teacher or other helper of abuse?
Do they know how to protect themselves from false allegatipns ?
Everyone with access to children should know all of the above

I have helped many time as a parent helper at swimming, but in the water and changing rooms, where I was often the only adult. I agree that most kids can and do get themselves dressed wer were always pushed for time as we relied on a bus to take us back to the school.
THe main help was getting the children hurried up, finding lost socks, making sure they remembered to pack their wet kit ( with costume wrapped inside towel). there was always plenty to do. There were never any fathers helping, but that's not unusual with day time school activities.

I did prefer supervising the girls changing rooms- the boys room was an education!

I would agree with you OP -until having read MN and there are some paranoid parents around- therefore just not worth the hassle.

Disclosures (CRBs in England) are a lot of old balls anyway. As a PP pointed out it's not like they protect against the paedo that's never been caught.

My brother's a parent and neither he nor I could get a clear Disclosure - well, I could get a Basic or Standard one, but not Enhanced. I was arrested and released with the proviso that I was "part of an ongoing investigation" - that was a few years ago now and I reckon the coppers have forgotten all about it if they were ever all that bothered in the first place, but it would prevent me getting a clear Enhanced Disclosure. He's got a record.

Neither of these are anything to do with crimes against children or sexual or violent crimes at all. Just because we cannot get clear Disclosures doesn't make us mad heinous paedos, however there might be a mad heinous paedo who could pass the Enhanced with flying colours. It might be an idea to have a special one where they only check for sexual offences, do they have that in England?

I think the potential anyway for serious harm/abuse/grooming in a swimming pool changing room surrounded by other parents and teachers must be minimal at best...

I could no more harm a child than I could fly to the moon but I would not dare enter a changing room where there were girls of school age in a state of undress. One silly or malicious child and I could be dead meat. And mud sticks. I helped out at DS's infants' school in the days before CRB but only in the classroom.

Venus I would feel far more concerned about my 5 year old getting dressed alone in the male changing room than I would having my DD seeing a 5,6,7 or even 9 year old boy in the changing room.

I think it's really sad that other parents don't want Dads helping out. I hate the assumption that everyone is out to abuse and harm our children.

Our school take them from year three up, they change separately and are always asking for Dads to help supervise the boys.

Surely though Andrewofgg there could just as easily be an allegation made about you by a boy.

Notso I fear you are right but it is less likely. All things considered I am glad the question no longer arises.

One of my DS's classmates was being brought up with his younger brother by a widowed father. Lovely chap. Very upset once when a mother told him that he should not be at the school gates, people would get the wrong idea. Another mother told her not to be so bloody silly.

Why don't you ask the school about this? Have a chat with the HT or another teacher in friendly fashion when they are back?
I'd have thought that they should be having DBS checks carried out, to cover themselves really.

CRB checks no longer exist. (I'm surprised that some who are involved in child protection are unaware of this).
www.gov.uk/disclosure-barring-service-check/overview

Just out of interest why is it less likely to be a boy?

Notso Now I come to think of it, why?

Perhaps a silly or malicious girl is more likely to be believed than a silly or malicious boy precisely because there is something odd about an adult man being in a girls' changing room.

In any event this area is a minefield for men in a way it is not for women, that may be right, that may be wrong, but so it is, and if I had a son at school I would probably stay out altogether.

DBS checks contain more than the previous CRB check did. If I recall, there's space for stuff about the old "Barred Lists" as well, stuff that doesn't always mean a conviction.

Mine's clear, but I didn't initially know about the Update service, so next time I need a check I'm going to apply for the Update service as well, meaning I won't need to keep applying, it'll be on the Update.

This is an old thread, didn't spot that initially.

Am I alone in being unhappy about disclosure of anything except convictions and I suppose pending cases?

Didn't see this was a zombie either Fry

Andrew thanks for answering. I hope you are not right that a girl is more likely to be believed than a boy. I totally understand you not wanting to get involved, and you're right it is more difficult for men.

At our swimming pool all the changing rooms are unisex but they don't go swimming until P6 (10/11 years old). Parent volunteers are only to help round them up.

At the swimming pool at the gym over 7's change in the same sex changing rooms although they made an exception for ds1 as he has s/n's. I think this is about right. I would not be happy with my 5 year old changing without me.

I had to get CRB checked AND a chaperone license to go backstage at my 5 year old daughter's end of year ballet show to help her change into her costume. Utterly ridiculous that I should need a licence for my own daughter! But such is the way nowadays....

Given the hysteria displayed on threads like the one about the priest showing boys wee on the floor in a loo, there's no way that I'd go anywhere near a changing room full of kids.

You only need one evil halfwit to start saying "why does Watching want to be in the kids changing rooms" & that's the start of a world of hurt.

If the school hasn't got the resources to run the event with qualified people, then they shouldn't be running it....