Parents helping in changing rooms at school swimming lesson.

[TattiePants]

DS is in yr 1 and his class have swimming lessons this year. Parents are invited to watch the lesson and are also encouraged to help out in the changing rooms before and after the lesson. In yr 1 this tends to be more ordering encouraging them to do it themselves than drying /dressing them but last year it was more 'hands-on'.

Actually when I say parents help out, what I really mean is mums. Due to pressure from other parents, the school only allow mums in the changing rooms, although dads can and do observe the lesson.

AIBU to think this is mad and out-dated. As a mum why am I less of a threat to 5 and 6 yr olds than DH? I understand that some dads may feel uncomfortable in this situation but surely they should have the choice. BTW there is always a teacher / TA in the changing room.

I helped a few years back and was asked to go in changing rooms with my child's class. It was just a couple years before the move to CRB check everyone so we weren't checked. I was mostly just helping with the (nightmare job!) swimming hats as the kids go in cubicles to change. There was a dad who helped but he wasn't allowed/asked into the changing rooms. I didn't watch the lessons but read a book and had a coffee.

In this situation parents don't need to be CRB checked. They are under the supervision of the teacher and/or TA, not alone with the children.

TBH though I am very bemused a lot of the time about how much weight is placed on the all important CRB. If you think about it, all a clear CRB means is that the person s never been convicted of something, not that they are not a risk.

In the changing room with lots of other adults plus the teacher and TA I think it is a fairly risk free situation surely?

I wasn't allowed to offer to take a couple of other children to a match after school this week (a member of staff was inthe car having a lift with me, and my dd was there) as I'm not CRB'd specifically by the school (I have 2 CRBs, one of which is for the LA). I do think allowing anyone not CBd to help with changing these days is very unusual.
Re numbers/ room in changing room - ony having 18 dcs would make a big difference to space of course, I was thinking of a normal class of 30

This (parents going to help at swimming) does happen at one of the boy's schools locally here in the first year or two, not in the girls schools though.

dd2's school does the same.

no idea if a dad would not be allowed to help - don;t think there are any sahds, or ones that could/would take time off work to go and help out.

dd2 is in reception, and has a swimming lesson once a week, all year round. by year 1, parent helpers are not required/allowed.

no CRBs asked for; I think the children separate out into boy/girl changing rooms (I know both are available, but not sure if it is just half the class in one, half in the other, rather than boy/girl split), and a minimum of 2 mums help out each week - there is also the class teacher, the TA, the swimming teacher (female) and usually a couple of other PE bods (male and female) helping out too.

Backforgood - in that situation we wouldn't allow it for insurance purposes rather than CRB ones.

Nigella - I never thought of it as being risky either to me or DS as there is a teacher present at all times and usually a few other mums so virtually impossible for anything improper to happen.

I gave consent for other mums to help DS if he needed it as I trust the teacher to manage the situation appropriately. I think there were only 3 sets of parents in reception that didn't give consent and the teacher tended to keep them together next to her so no one else helped them. Don't know now in yr 1, although the kids only need help with ties, top buttons etc.

Ah don't mind me Tattie I work in child protection and have dealt with a lot of false allegations so I can go into overdrive on these things

I am also used to the level of manipulation that some abusers are capable of so being in a busy changing room where all the adults are frantically trying to ensure the kids are dressed says to me that there is opportunity for someone to be subtely innapropriate as no one is actually watching them IYSWIM

Anyway, the CRB thing does seem to be a massive oversight. I agree with Hulababy in that CRBs do not mean that you are a safe person per say, they just mean that you have never been caught doing anything dodgy! But without CRBs you could actually have people in the changing rooms who have been caught doing dodgy things!

i am a parent who helps out in our local school swimming lessons but i actually get in the water with the kids while the teacher barks out orders from the poolside there are two dads in the water with us but i felt that a mum should be in the water so that the girls could have someone to hold onto if they felt funny about being helped by a man. all our volunteers have been crb checked

Wow, I wouldn't be happy with anyone changing my child for swimming if they had not had a CRB and been checked. Whether they're male or female makes no difference in my opinion. I wouldn't feel comfortable helping another child in those circumstances either because of the risks. Not only do children need protecting but adults should protect themselves from possible allegations or misunderstandings.

We should be able to leave our kids at school and go to work or go home really. It is the school's responsibility to get the kids changed for swimming or PE.

why a crb check, i guess it is in a local pool, so other user at the pool will not be crb checked.

NigellaLawless - not disputing you knowledge but a couple of years ago I was preparing for a safer recruitment course at local primary school. As part of that prep the statistic was that at least at primary an abuser is more likely to be female not male.

One of the issues for safer recruitment is that we all have preconceptions about what is or isnt safe. We then apply these in different situations. The pp who said that little girls will be unhappy changing in front of an adult male is IMO wrong in saying this is instinctive. Children will pick up cues from the adults around them.

IMO all those helping in the changing room should be CRB checked and the opportunity chore to assist should be available to either parent. To assume that assisting is natural for women but unnatural for man is both patronising and complacent.

I am happy to stand corrected Gnome it makes sense that the stats would reflect this at primary school age as women have greater access to children in vulnerable situations at this stage in their life - which is exactly what the OP is talking about.

I also agree with you that it is incorrect to say that that girls are instinctively unhappy changing in front of males. From a very young age in this society (and many others) girls are taught to think that women are safe and men are dangerous, hence them becoming anxious about a male assisting them to get changed.

I would want the helpers to be CRB checked, not because I think there is a risk in a busy changing room but because if my child thinks that nice lady A is practically a member of staff, and gets to know nice lady A over a period of weeks when nice lady A helps her get dressed then she can't be blamed for thinking its ok to get a lift home from the park from nice lady A and any of nice lady A's associates.

I helped with swimming lesson changing on a rota- the girls used the women's changing room, the boys I'm not sure if it was mens or a communal one (the female PE teacher supervised them). The only 'hands on' task was helping them get their hair into swimming caps. The girls all knew the 'nice ladies' anyway - they'd all been to playdates and parties supervised by the various mums. All the parents knew each other to a reasonable level. I suppose unfortunately not all schools have this level of community but when they do, CRB checks would just seem bizzare.

The only person on the rota who wasn't a mum was a grandpa - same chap who did duty as Father Christmas each year. I don't know if he supervised the boys when he went or if the teacher just bobbed between the changing rooms, but I can't imagine any of the boys or their parents would have had any objection - everyone knew him.

By yr1 I think there are a few kids who are becoming self-concious, its the sort of age at which pools tend to insist on kids using the 'appropriate gender' changing room - so probably (apart from the teacher) the helpers should also only be with the same gender.

I regularly help out with my DD's school swimming lessons - both with walking to/from the pool and in the changing rooms. I am CRB checked and completely understand what others are saying about it not being the 'be all and end all'. As a governor at the school I have also recently raised the issue of 1 member of staff in each changing room - for everyone's sake there should be 2 members of staff in each changing room - a (sad) sign of the times.

in our school the mums help in the boys AND girls changing rooms, but the dads only in the boys, the teachers help the girls
yanbu to think this is silly for such young children

I would want the helpers to be CRB checked

Cue many helpers saying "life is too short" or similar. This is the death knell for easy access to volunteers.

Why the death knell - our school does the CRB checking - they give you a form, you fill it in and return it, the school sends it off with all the others.

Filling in a form is not any hassle - ours will even get the school admin to do it with you if you have difficulties.

They shouldn't need a load of volunteers to take dcs swimming, its not that much harder than PE. If they do and can't get any because people won't be CRB checked then maybe they should leave it until further up the school. If people are prepared to commit to 1-2 hours every week then spending 5 mins filling out a form isn't really a big ask.

I think I live in quite a close community but so do lots of convicted criminals. Teachers, scout leaders, priests, foster parents and nursery workers are often at the heart of the communities they serve but it doesn't mean its pointless to CRB them. One of my friends relatives has recently been charged with a child abuse offence. I know him, my dcs know him, I have been to BBQ's at his house, he comes to school functions with his dnephews, he is in the music group at church. I don't know if he is guilty or if he has offended before but I know he was asked to help with the children liturgy group (CRB check required) and refused. Maybe he just doesn't want to (I don't want to either), maybe he has a conviction that would show up, I don't know, but I don't think having a community feel is a substitute for a CRB check.

Can someone advise me please? I googled my question and this came up in the search....

What is the Child:Staff ratio when travelling and at swimming lessons?

Reason i ask is my Child's school take two classes together (approx 50 minimum) on a coach and my son being one of the youngest (August Born) has always struggled to get himself together and recently mentioned he couldn't find his cubicle, and only did so by spotting his towel on the floor-No teacher in sight :-/

Feeling like i need to pull him out for safety reasons and also it is making him very anxious when they are rushed to get out and ready..

Firstly I am Male and I have something to say.
Fathers are parents too
Not all men are Perverts
Women can be Perverts too
I do not find children romantically attractive in any way, most men like women
In my opinion Mothers are more likely to make inappropriate lewd comments to young boys like, "ooh, aren't you big!". A male friend was assaulted by a Woman when he was younger, he didn't tell me the details and he didn't tell the authorities because of the Sexist nature Britain can be at times.
Women/Mothers/Female Teachers should not be in the male changing room, other men do not like it
Women should not supervise young boys changing, a responsible adult male should.
Young boys do not like being observed whilst naked by Female teachers or other female parents in the same way young girls do not like being observed by men. Primary Schools needs to entice more Men in to teaching infants.
When I was 3/4, I could dress myself without my parents help. I could read, write, and knew Basic Maths sums and speak another language, Children may surprise you with their talent given a chance, Parents aren't required to help.
When I was six I changed in the Male Changing room by myself and 14 years later I still do, I have never been assaulted by anyone, I do not like how mothers think they are allowed in, they do stare and they do make me and others uncomfortable. Changing rooms are generally safe
In this country discrimination by gender is illegal.
When in a unisex changing room (I have never used them) it is alright for women and men to enter, in a Male changing room women should not enter, I would never enter a female changing room.
It takes two to make a child, Mothers should take their daughters and Fathers should take their sons, both my parents worked full time yet they managed. In single parent situations their is always another adult you can rely upon.
Women in my opinion are too sexist about Fathers and young boys, we are human for gods sake.
Yes I am prude, I am proud of it as well. I also am a law abiding citizen
Fathers should not take daughters over 6 in male locker. Men will be naked in there. Same goes for mothers with sons.

What about the little boys surely they would prefer a man( dad ) helping them change?

Well put Midlands.