AIBU, or should clients not expect you to be at your desk 24 hours a day?

[iamnotjustaworker]

Namechanged for this, as don't want to get myself into trouble..

but

ok, so I work in the city. Yes, it's high pressured, and the pay is not bad.
BUT, clients, you should understand this:

• I do, contrary to what you may expect of your advisers, have a life. I try not to express or reveal that if at all possible, but, yes, I have a life that exists outside of the office.

• I do, also, have other clients. They also want my undivided attention. Sorry about that.

• I do, also, have managers wanting other various pieces of me. Sorry about that as well, but if I didn't attend to that, I wouldn't be here in the office advising you at all as I would be out of a job.

• If I don't respond to an email or phone call within 30 minutes, that does not mean I have disappeared. That means I might have something else that is equally urgent. It might even mean that I am busy taking care of your matter and ensuring that I can give you the best advice that I can.

I've finished now. Thank you for listening.
Do tell me if IABU.

I think a lot of people get a bit sniffy when they hear 'The City' largely because, for the rest of the country, 'The City' is what is wrong with this country as the country is currently suffering for actions in 'The City' whilst those in 'The City' seem to be largely protected from the effects of their arrogance and greed.

You might not be part of that, OP, but then again you might!

And

ok, so I work in the city. Yes, it's high pressured, and the pay is not bad.
BUT, clients, you should understand this:

sounds a little bit arrogant...

And as other people have pointed out, it doesn't matter where you work, what you do and what you get paid, most people feel this pressure.

My mum could have written your post and she's a school secretary!

Perhaps posters 'pretending' to not understand your use of 'The City' were sensing an arrogance and trying to bring you down a peg or two, because I also think that anyone living in the UK knows fully well what 'The City' is, and where it is, we've all had our pay frozen/cut/stopped entirely through redundancy because of 'The City'.

And relax

The thing is there are people who don't automatically know what or where "The City" is. Not everyone posting on mumsnet lives in the UK let alone South East England, so why should they. Actually even my Mum who does, may have to think twice, it's just not something that's on her radar. Assuming they are just pretending not to know to 'bring you down a peg or two' is both arrogant and a bit paranoid.

I teach in an international school overseas. I am paid very well for what I do, but I also get frustrated when parents walk into my classroom and demand to talk to me while I am teaching. No respect or boundaries at al!

I do have a 24 hour email answering policy, but I live in Egypt and we often don't have Internet so that is acceptable. No way would I give out my home number. They would call all night to ask me questions!

I feel your frustration, but I think most jobs are pretty high pressured these days.

EdlessAllenPoe said above:
"good client service is about pretending all of the above isn't true, whilst trying to manage expectations around the fact that it is."

Spot on.

OP, YANBU in theory but as another ex-big 4 person, I recognise the problem and it's just how a client service environment is. Though I have always had the impression the competitive long hours thing is worse in London, which is one of many reasons I don't work there.

There are things you can do about it, but they're only mitigation, you won't get rid of the reality, which is pretty much as Edless says.

• communications & managing expectations. Let people know, as near immediately as you can, when you can deal with something, and get organised so you stick to it.

• learn to manage your clients, your managers, etc, so that you have the maximum control and they trust you. Life is much easier when you have got everyone to the point that they trust you to deliver what you said you will when you said you will and to the quality they expect. It's very hard work getting there - both getting the quality and learning how each person works and how best to manage them - but it definitely pays off as you get given a tiny bit more slack cos of the halo effect.

• delegate as much as you appropriately can. Managed well, staff can be an absolute godsend. Teach them what you expect and insist it is delivered (no correcting juniors' mistakes "because it's quicker to do it myself"). You'll get through loads more.

• resist the pressure to work long hours: they should be for real crunch points not as a routine. Yes, there is a lot of work but if you are mega-focused and organised you can get through it in fewer hours than your colleagues who take a less ruthless approach to time-management. So do it. Then switch off & go home.

FolkGirl

When you said "... also think that anyone living in the UK knows fully well what 'The City' is ..." just out of interest, are you from the soutrh east?

It is an odd attitude to simply say "the city" and believe that everyone knows you are talking about London. There are other cities in the UK.

And, yes I do live in the UK, but not in the south east of England!

Shangers was that book The Undomestic Goddess? I'm not a big fan of chick lit but that book had my crying with laughter in the middle of an airport departures lounge :)

It's an interesting theory AKMD. I read an interesting analysis of our long hours culture a while back. Essentially long hours have no visible 'cost' to the employer, so there is no incentive to scale them back

More than that, there is a benefit as the client can be more impressed. So you can charge more for a higher service. So the client feels more entitled owing to the ludicrouis fees.

And on it goes....

learn to manage your clients, your managers, etc, so that you have the maximum control and they trust you. Life is much easier when you have got everyone to the point that they trust you to deliver what you said you will when you said you will and to the quality they expect. It's very hard work getting there

IME there is only one sure fire way, and that is to run the business yourself.

You're not being unreasonable or arrogant!

I've stepped away from working at a Big 4 firm and now run my own business. I have never worked so hard in my life! When it's your own business there is every motivation to make your clients feel special and loved. Above everyone - and everything - else. When you work for a professional services firm (as I believe you might), there's pressure from partners and senior staff to do the same. It can't be avoided and sometimes it helps to have a rant. Hope you feel better for it!

I know people have given you advice to cope with the situation but I have a feeling you weren't looking for that - just wanted to get it off your chest a bit. This is the life we've chosen and mostly we're OK with it (we like the intellectual challenge, some of the pressure and the financial rewards) but sometimes it gets a bit much. All people have stresses and strains in their jobs - it's just they'll vary from person to person and job to job and time to time.

I hope you get some time off this weekend and relax a little. If it makes you feel better (in a misery loves company kind of way), my DH is working all day tomorrow and I'll probably take advantage of the 'opportunity' by finishing off some work so I'm ahead for Monday. Sad, or what?

YANBU and I sympathise hugely. It has got worse and worse over recent years. When I joined my firm we had targets of replying to telephone messages with 24 hours, now it is more like 24 minutes and dealing with letters within 10 days! Now it is emails and within the same day. I find generally that other professional advisors are worse than the clients - the amount of times that I am sent a contract to review by solicitors at 9/10pm and expected to be able to comment on my area of expertise the following morning is just stupid. At the same time the risk environment has got more and more scary and I can't send anything out without it being reviewed ten times. Globalisation and lack of respect for other time zones is just as big a problem. And don't get me started on clients who insist they need something done by X date and then sit on it for 2 weeks before dealing with it and giving me 2 minutes notice that I am expected to deal with something again. None of my clients pay me well enough for that level of inconsideration and most of my clients got out of similar jobs to mine because they were fed up of being treated that way themselves!

It's not just a question of managing your managers etc. Everyone is so stressed and under so much pressure that it becomes hard to behave reasonably no matter how much trust you have built up.

And PS my DH says he knew what the "city" was as a teenager living in Hicksville, South Australia as did I growing up on a council estate in NE England. It is not unreasonable to assume a basic level of general knowledge in people same as I would assume anyone knew what I means if I said "X is appearing on Broadway". Fair enough some people may need an explanation but it is not arrogant or unreasonable to assume that they would know.

It is not unreasonable to assume a basic level of general knowledge in people

You should watch some of the daytime TV shows (only when ill, honest....). "General" knowledge is as rare a bird as "common" sense :)

It is not unreasonable to assume a basic level of general knowledge in people

No it isn't, but it is unreasonable to assume they are just being facetious when they don't have the level of general knowledge you expected. Just because you think something is obvious doesn't mean everyone does.

I don't honestly think that the long hours culture does anyone save those at the very top any favours. I totally understand wanting to do ones best, and I get why people who run their own business work all hours of the day, but why are so many intelligent people prepared to sacrifice so much of their lives to make other people very rich.

What also strikes me is that judging by state of the economy the long hours and must do everything now culture doesn't really have any economic benefit, but it does create lots of social disadvantages, particularly for women. If you're not prepared to make huge sacrifices in your personal life then often the career you've worked so hard on pre-children is impossible to maintain. Even from an employers point of view this situation is madness, these women are people in whom they have made huge investments in training, who are assets to the firm, but completely inflexible approaches to working hours effectively cast them by the wayside.

Would the world really be such a bad place if we just slowed down a bit, and if people were only expected to work for 8 hours a day?

popsandpip and sarahbumbearer -thank you for understanding me correctly!!

Others - I am not arrogant and do not need to be brought down a peg or two.

I apologised earlier for wrongly assuming that people knew what 'the City' was - not being arrogant, just a symptom of growing up in London, for which I admitted may have been a little shortsighted. Also, it has been in the news rather a lot over the last few years, so it should be somewhat obvious (not being arrogant there either, just perhaps misguided presumption).

I am not unappreciative or boasting of a good job - just being honest - this sort of job demands a lot (as do most other jobs) - and in fact I was being un-arrogant by admitting that I get paid comparatively well for this and should therefore by rights not be complaining.

But my point was that, however much it is the prevailing culture, and however much you might get paid for it (which I won't go into, but suffice it to say it's nothing spectacular, just what would be expected of professional at that level), and however much you have to pretend that you do not have any sort of life / other clients / other conflicting internal demands, that does not justify such a culture or those who perpetuate it. Just because a client might be under immense pressure themselves, should not mean that they should automatically be rude to an adviser for no reason. No matter what the circumstances.

It is no good saying 'that's the city', 'that's the culture', 'that's what you get paid for' etc. - that way of thinking will only perpetuate this selfish culture and the mess this country is in now.

What I am saying is, let's start thinking of each other as human beings, and the realities of that - whatever the job, in whatever part of the country, and however much or little you get paid for it. I only mentioned my situation because I was talking about myself! and - popsandsnip you hit the nail on the head - I wasn't asking for advice (albeit that I posted on AIBU, so that would be expected) - I was just having a rant and letting off steam! I know it won't change, I know what the coping mechanisms are, I know about delegation and time management (although do appreciate the advice Auntiesablishment!).

So, in summary, I am a nice person. I am not arrogant and sorry if it came across that way. Even nice professional people can get upset about something sometimes. And I still hold by my OP (which you won't fully understand the circumstances of as I don't want to out myself!) but within all the professional life that is the 'City' - and within every job everywhere - there should still be that recognition that people are people - we are not superhuman and have to deal with things in a reasonable timeframe (whatever that may be) and unexpected human things may very occasionally need taking care of (e.g. a confidential but essential and urgent visit to the doctor).

SO there.

If you are dealing with international clients in a different time zone, then it comes with the territory.

I do, but it's never been the international clients that have been problematic - ever - it's the ones down the road.

international clients always give a reasonable amount of time to attend to their emails etc.

Haha OP are you me! I could have written the same thing. My client emailed me at lunchtime today, Saturday, for not having done something she wanted. I had in fact, tried, but her contact was unavailable. She emails up until midnight most nights. I do not get paid enough. Legal aid pay my company, not her. She is our most important client. I sent a truly P.A. Message back pointing out I was sorry for not having gotten back to her sooner, I was looking after my disabled son. Grrrrrr

Bringme, a publicly funded woman, working in the city. Yay me.

I'm a midwife and while my clients may not ring me all hours my managers certainly do. I get phone calls all hours of the day and night, Inc weekends. The majority of them saying aghhhh, can you come into work now, or tonight, or tomorrow, etc as they're short staffed and having a panic.

I get paid £14 an hour and get it.

I'm sorry OP, but you do come across as rather up-your-own-bottom.

You seem to use the word 'professional' rather copiously and have somehow assumed that you're hard done by because people expect a lot of you - that's why you're being paid so much, I imagine.

ok, so I'm just a human.

Are humans allowed to visit the doctor in an emergency without clients hounding them?

what difference what I do or how much I am paid? On the contrary, I mentioned these things to highlight the fact that people do expect a lot. So what? was also giving some personal background.

Next time, I will post thus:

AIBU to want people to be fair, honest and compassionate?

If you read my posts, you will also see that I have said several times that the job and the money are irrelevant.

However, clients do not see it in this way, which was why it was highlighted:
i.e. client thinks - I pay your firm a lot of money, therefore, you should be there at all times at my beck and call.

From my perspective, the principle is the same.
From the client's perspective, it is not.