...to ask how you decide if someone is 'fat' ?

[MaisyMooCow]

Here

So the 'fat' passenger paying more argument continues.

My question is, how do you decide when someone qualifies for the 'fat seats'. What happens if you book a normal seat, get to check-in and they say 'Sorry madam but you're fat' . Are you expected to get on their scales for a weigh in?!!

"Hmm, the idea of someone very overweight deciding not to go on a plane because they know that they are too fat and will either be weighed/stuffed in a fat-testing cage/made to pay more is really sad!"

I know. It isn't very nice to be made to feel like a social leper, but surely anyone who is extremely overweight is going to have the problem of fitting comfortably in any normal sized seat anyway regardless of whether it is on a plane. And as I pointed out earlier the airline has to shell out more in fuel if they have a plane load of very overweight people. Unfortunately being overweight has many more practical implications than the obvious health risks.

The company I work for sells office chairs with gas lift height adjustment. They all have a maximum weight capacity because if you are too heavy you break the chair. This isn't discriminatory, just a simple fact of life (that probably has to comply with H & S regulations as well).

13 hours on half my seat thanks to the fat guy next to me. 13 fucking hours. It is not up to airlines to accommodate larger passengers. If you are so large you cannot fit in a seat I'd take that as a sign to lose weight or pay up for a business class one. Wy should the paying passenger sat next to you have to endure discomfort because of your body?

Lots of people would say that small children shouldn't be allowed on planes because they often scream the place down and make everyone on the plane's life a misery. No one's suggesting they are banned from flights or that parents pay more to put them in special sound-proof seats are they?

Disclaimer: maybe people have suggested that. I actually have no idea.

I'd ban kids from business class...

salamanda if someone's kids decided to come and perch on the edge of my seat so I had to squash up, I'd tell the parents to come and remove them.

Noisy children can cause problems yes...but that's not the topic here.

salamanda, yes babies & sometimes children do scream. Sometimes people vomit & that is really horrible too. However, there is very little anyone can do about these things. You don't know if your baby is going to scream or you will puke.

Unless it is the first time you are flying, you do know if you are likely to take up half of the seat of the person next to you. Whose responsibility is that? Yours or the airline?
I actually think people are fat because they are addicted to carbohydrates & our entire society perpetuates the myth that low fat / low carb will keep you slim & that food manufacturers are locked in a conspiracy with the medical advisers to keep people gaining weight because it makes them so much money. Don't even get me started on the multi-million pound con that is the dieting industry. BUT that is a whole different thread!!!!

I know it's not the topic Worraliberty, I am just comparing the sympathy and tolerance we have for children and parents with the lack of sympathy we have for overweight people.

Maybe my personal preferences are colouring things things, though. I would find being squashed next to a fat person far less stressful than having to listen to a child crying for a whole flight.

salamanda if someone's kids decided to come and perch on the edge of my seat so I had to squash up, I'd tell the parents to come and remove them.

I can solve the kid problem with earplugs. The losing half my seat problem is very different.

I'd rather listen to a screaming child (if I really had to) than end up with muscle ache/cramp because the seat I paid for was being partially occupied by someone else.

I know that sounds harsh but everyone has a right to the seat they've paid for.

You have to by two seats or bring a child or skinny DP to sit next to.

A child cannot help being upset or scared etc. A child can quieten down during a flight. The person squashing you will not shrink during the flight (sadly).

Do people really blame weight problems on conspiracies between food manufacturers and the health industry?? Really???

Can I just remind people that the 'fatty' you are judging may be on a medication like Epilim, an epilepsy medication which causes people to put on large amounts of weight. Or maybe they overeat because they were sexually abused as a child. Some of you lovely folk need to read 'Fat is a feminist issue'. The judginess and aggression on this thread is revolting. Yes, some people are fat - and some people are vile - it just doesn't show in their body weight.

I don't think people are showing aggression to 'fat' people, merely their annoyance at the situation they find themselves in when they fly. I've read a lot of MN threads and their is a lot of sympathy for the reasons why people become overweight.

Yes, they do coraltoes. There is even evidence to back it up, not just the rantings of a 40 something woman!

"I would find being squashed next to a fat person far less stressful than having to listen to a child crying for a whole flight."

I think that unless it has actually happened to you, you don't realise just how uncomfortable it is. I flew from Heathrow to New York being squashed on to my left cheek for the entire flight. It was desperately uncomfortable.

On another flight from Hong Kong to Manchester I was sat next to a large man (not fat, just tall and well built) who spent the entire flight sat with his legs apart. He got off at Amsterdam and I got talking to the girl who was sat the other side of him. It turned out that both of us had had an uncomfortable flight because he had no regard for the passengers on either side of him.

kumquat What would understanding any of that have to do with the subject in hand here on this thread?

Most of the people on this thread do seem to be coming from the point of view that if someone is fat it's entirely their fault. Whether or not it is their fault we will never know - even if there isn't a medical issue they could be comfort eating due to some terrible trauma in their past. Therefore, surely we should treat overweight people with sympathy and understanding (as we should parents with screaming children, obv.) rather than getting all het up about slight inconvenience to ourselves. Really, does it happen THAT often that you are squashed between vastly overweight people on transport?

Kumquat the question here is should one person suffer discomfort because of another. In this instance it is the other persons size that causes it, and that is something easy to measure vs seat size. Yes they may be on medicine or whatever but that doesn't mean another passenger should endure 13 hours perching and unable to move. It isn't always fat anyway...I've also been squished next to a rugby player on a flight...that was just as awful.

I'd also say those who are fat through medication or illness are the minority.

Most of the people on this thread do seem to be coming from the point of view that if someone is fat it's entirely their fault.

I'm coming from the point of view that I don't want to be squashed on a 9 hour redeye to San Fran.

I don't care about causes, I care about effects.

More sensible sized seats to accommodate actual people would make sense. People are getting taller and wider.

That said I don't see why someone else's problem has to become my (or anyone else's) problem.

"Really, does it happen THAT often that you are squashed between vastly overweight people on transport?"

No, but when you are uncomfortably squashed in an uncomfortable seat for 13 hours it does tend to stand out in your memory.

I think what people are trying to say is that it doesn't matter if other people are overweight because it doesn't affect them. However, it does when you are pinioned into a small seat by your neighbour on a long flight.

I have been on both sides of this. Most of my adult life I was very overweight. Plane tavel (and it was always long haul due to where family lived) was very uncomfortable. Less so since having children as I could always spill onto one of their seats. I even needed seatbelt extenders on small aircraft. Did this stop me flying? No, but was very embarrassingly. Would I have paid for two seats? Not sure, but if I knew I would have had to, that would have been one hell of a motivator to lose weight.

Over Christmas we flew to Florida. This was the first flight after losing 100 pounds. As a size 8 (with short legs) it was the most comfortable flights I have ever had!

I do remember one flight I took per children whe I flew long haul in business class. The woman sitting next to me was huge (I was not that thin myself at the time, but she was really big). The rest of her group was flying economy. It was very clear that she was in business class as she was unable to fit in an economy seat.

"I'd also say those who are fat through medication or illness are the minority."

That is most people's general belief. And from that they conclude that everyone else who is fat is just a greedy bastard and therefore an easy target.

Fattism is one of the few remaining socially acceptable prejudices.