to sit my neighbour down and ask him why he believes in God?

[ElaineBenes]

I'm a reluctant atheist. I really want to believe in God and I've thought about it a lot but it just doesn't make any sense to me. I'm a pretty logical person and the logic doesn't add up.

So my neighbour is a doctor, must be quite scientific, right? And he's super-religious. We've never discussed it but I want to ask him over and ask him to explain to me why, but it's a quite a jump from chit chat about the weather and kids to the meaning of life!

..and who is to say that God is not a human sized mars bar? There are more things in heaven and earth and all that jazz.

trustissues did you just say that Reikki interests you?

SRLY??

If I were God I'd choose a Snicker...or perhaps a Lion Bar....

Reikki - yes, I find it interesting. Why?

Well because it has never been shown to be anything other than a great way to separate people from cash? or as wikipedia more professionally puts it 'the evidence is insufficient to suggest that reiki is an effective treatment for any condition'

I mean it interests me too in a wow are people really that crazy sort of a way?

Maybe Im getting it mixed up with something else.....isn't it the one wear you wave your hands over someone and get a feeling about whats wrong with them? Or deduce food intolerances from a persons ability to hold food?

wear= where....doh

There are lots of things out there that don't have a decent scientific grounding...but then again, wasn't that long ago people generally ascribed to the belief that the world was flat, or that epilepsy was actually possession by evil spirits....while I've only used Reikki once, it worked. How did it work? I have no idea, but it did, for me. Frankly, I don't care is my health practitioner wears a bone through his/her nose and shakes chicken feet over me (fresh ones though, please) if it gets results, fine by me :)

How do you know the Reikii worked?

I absolutely share your point of view that the only thing that matters in helath care is whether or not the treatment is effective....I couldnt give a flying fuck how it is supposed to work.

But the general conclusion from thousands of test cases is that Reiki doesnt work.

So you appear to be holding a view point that contradicts your stated assertions....

Because my headache went away. Maybe it was coincidence, maybe it was auto-suggestion...who knows? What I do know though is that I didn't tell the practitioner anything (was at a health conference at the NEA) and was beyond skeptical. It was free, in for a penny in for a pound, and well, she knew immediately I had a headache and boy did my head get warm...and then my head didn't hurt anymore...obviously, this doesn't mean that it was down to the Reikki, but it's not beyond the realms of possibility and I find it interesting.

Okay, what are my stated assertions? Apart that that one, isolated incident, seemed to work for me?

They got rid of your headache? whoa! thats probably not going to over turn the weight of medical evidence against Reiki being effective....

Your assertions was: 'if it gets results, fine by me'

The facts: Reiki has been shown to do nothing for any know medical condition.

So erm it's a contradiction that you would think that Reiki is useful.
I can live with interesting...as I said it interests me also...although mostly as a case study on how to extract money from people with a minimum amount of effort.

I very nearly signed up to an online qualification in Reiki during my maternity leave....I think that would have been absolutely fascinating. I mean how exactly do you go about teaching somebody the correct way of doing something that doesnt actually work? Presumably I can start my own version right here and now.....hmmmm...that might actually work.

I haven't said it is useful...I have said that it interests me and that that one time it seemed to work for me. I have an enquiring mind...to walk away from that one incident and not be interested would be completely contradictory to the person I am. But no, I'm not contradicting myself here, you're not completely understanding what I have said. Each to their own. And lke you said...God might look like a human sized Mars Bar...who's to know? More things in heaven and earth...and all that jazz.

And please, I'd rather you weren't condescending...I do understand the importance to good scientific testing and am very well aware that one isolated incident a Gold Standard Double Blind test does not make.

I wasnt being condecending (I cant even spell it) I was surprised that you would take such a nebulous experience and say of Reiki that 'it worked' for you.

Especially surprising now given that you are now demonstrating a sound grasp of evidence....

NO, I said it seemed to work for me..and I then suggested that there could be other reasons for the result: coincidence, auto-suggestion..which you apparently skipped over, possibly because you firmly believe that it's BS..and BS it could be...but tha'ts not enough to deter me from my interest

Andf I also stated further down in my post "obviously this deosn't mean that it was because of the Reikki, but it's not beynod the realms of possibility..."

A non believer over here too.

This is what makes sense to me;

It was a way to control vast poplulations before media etc.

It's all based on story telling anyway.

I was referring to when you said 'I've only used Reikki once, it worked' and totally agree that you have said many many more sensible things since. I was just explaining what worried me.

Ah, I see...well, depending on your point of view it did work - my headache went...it would take me many more sessions to actually come to a conclusion as to whether (by whatever method) it was something that consistenlty worked for me, but if I chose to have more sessions (I never have) that were successful, the method of how it worked really wouldn't matter a wit to me. As long as I felt better and was getting my money's worth, that would be just fine.

And sorry, that "NO" wasn't meant to be in capitals, so sorry if that came accross as if I were trying to be rude.

No problem, I tend to read posts in as neutral a way as possible although I am apparently always causing offence with things I write that were never meant to be read they way they were...

I think that thinking you are getting your moneys worth and actually getting your moneys worth are two separate things....all other things being equal I would prefer that you (or anyone else) actually got value for money. Hence I would suggest ibuprofen (which has worked at least a couple of thousand times for me personally and has been demonstrated in large scale clinical trials to work) rather than Reiki.

But it is your money, and you must spend it as you please :)

Ah yes, but if I take Ibuprofen then I can't drink so much.....JOKE!!!

indeed

I was completely lost without ibuprofen during my pregnancy....but luckily my migranes went away for the duration....man was I shocked when they started back in 2 weeks post partum...you can completely forget how shit something feels in 9 months....

I should own shares in ibuprofen....

I read a book called "when bad things happen to good people".I think it was a rabbi who wrote it (I'm not Jewish btw). I had been through some hefty issues and it was great to see some different perspectives on "why bad stuff happens". X