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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think if you SAH and your DP works and earns X, you do not therefore earn X yourself

789 replies

catgirl1976 · 04/02/2012 09:53

I do not want to start a SAH / WAH bunfight and this is inspired by another thread but......

A thread recently was asking people if they earnt over £40k and I was surprised to see a number of posters saying they were SAHM / SAHD but their partner earnt XX, so therefore they did too.

Now, I am not commenting on the value of the work a stay at home partner does - the value is huge and it is a tough, worthwhile thing to do.

But you do not earn. (Even if you should etc etc).

I work. My DH stays at home. If I heard DH saying "oh catgirl earns xxx so I earn xxx too" I would be really peed off and think - "no, no dude - you don't."

We don't have separate money - what's mine is his and vice versa, and I am happy with our arrangement. It is hos money as much as mine, but I earn it. He didn't spend 20 hours negotiating a deal or whatever - that was me.

It has never even occured to me before, but I was just surprised that people felt if DP earned an amount, they earned it too and would actually say, well yes I earn over £40k as DH is a GP or whatever.

It almost felt like some people were saying they were somehow personally doing better than others because they had "married better" which seemed really Hmm

AIBU?

OP posts:
SecretMinceRinser · 06/02/2012 11:50

Well you would think people were allowed to have differing opinions missic but apparently not. You are right people can say that they think it's better for their child to socialise with other kids in a nursery with impunity but if a sahp says they think it's better for young kids to mainly interact with the same adult carer then it's a 'veiled attack' on working mums. I wonder why that is - why some working parents can't just disagree without taking massive offence?
It seems that the mere existence of parents who stay at home because they think that's the best for their kids in their circumstances is offensive to some who work.

RealLifeIsForWimps · 06/02/2012 11:51

It's obviously practically possible- I mean, what isn't if you have enough money to throw at it? - but I think most people would find it a little unpalatable

eg to leave 1 year old child with nannies working shifts for 2 weeks and go off on business.

Not totally unlikely if (eg) one parent is an airline pilot and the other one's an investment banker

Whatmeworry · 06/02/2012 11:55

I have more earning potential than the woman who seems to get pleasure out of trying to make me feel like shit. She is quite clearly very proud of herself for marrying so well. Wow what an achievement

Marrying well trumps ability all the time. It is rough, but t'was ever thus.

YonSeaCow · 06/02/2012 11:57

Not necessarily YonSeaCow - DH isn't very well paid and that's not likely to change much in the near future. In fact his job isn't permanent, so we could be looking at having to move in a couple of years. We've just cut our cloth to suit our means - we live in a cheap (but not nasty) area, bought a house that was in bad repair and so was below market value, only run one battered old car, don't have much in the way of luxuries etc. I definitely didn't "marry well" - DH literally had a couple of grand in the bank when we married and no income. I was working full time at that point. We both decided that we wanted me to be a SAHM and so worked towards that by saving, planning ahead, etc. It might happen that in the future I'll have to return to work but in that case DH will probably become a SAHD. Whatever happens we can live on one pretty average wage, and either of us could earn it as necessary. In fact we could live on benefits if it came to it, but we're hoping that won't happen.

Surely that depends on your definition of an average wage? I agree you don't particularly need mega bucks, but my family couldn't survive on DH's £14k wage, so in terms of that, one of you does need to be earning a liveable wage or have the potential to in order to make it workable.

fedupofnamechanging · 06/02/2012 11:59

I think SMR has had a hard time here and all she's really said is that she feels sah is better for her kids. That's fair enough - we all do what we think is best, only we have differing opinions as to what that actually is.

callmemrs · 06/02/2012 12:42

She's said a lot more than that karma- we've heard all about her daughters fast track academic progress and had a low down on how shit her local childcare is. If you think that's just innocent debate I think you're being a tad generous to her.

SecretMinceRinser · 06/02/2012 12:46

Yes just as we've heard about the kept, vacuous women living in the 1950's waiting for the salon to open. Not much veiled about that.
I have made no bones that I think me staying at home has been better for MY family. I have also mentioned 3 cms. I haven't generalised about cm's in general and I haven't suggested that sah is best for all, or even most, families.
I also haven't pretended people have said things they haven't said so I can argue with imaginary opinions which is more than can be said for some Hmm

callmemrs · 06/02/2012 13:06

Live and let live. If you don't want to work and have a partner happy for you not to then fine.
Other women do work and their children turn out just as bright, successful and emotionally well adjusted. Smile

SecretMinceRinser · 06/02/2012 13:14

That's what I've been saying all along. I'm also happy for people to talk about how happy theu are with their childcare etc without taking it as a direct dig at my choice. I think it's better for my family that I stay at home - presumably you think it's better for yours that you work. Being positive about your own situation isn't a dig at others. I haven't said anything derogatory about mums (or dads) who work. On the other hand there have been a lot of the usual sahm stereotypes pedalled out on this thread - yet it seems to be be the working mums taking offence at the existance of sahms who feel their choice has benefitted their child in any way (the one who has done it for themselves is ok though Hmm.
The only offensive things that have been said on here about working mums (why did you have kids etc) afaics have been anecdotes from the working mums themselves.

Wamster · 06/02/2012 13:17

YANBU. A sahp doesn't earn money, however, I see that earnings go into family 'pot'.
It only really matters if the earner refuses to share the cash.

As regards a relationship split, a married sahp can claim that the non-paid work carried out in childcare is of worth via financial compensation.
A person who has a 'partner' not a spouse cannot. This is why I believe any person who is reliant upon their partner for cash as a sahp (if they've got their own money put by, fine) is being foolish.

callmemrs · 06/02/2012 13:18

No- I don't think it's 'better' for my children that i work. I think it's better for me! Intellectual stimulation , salary and pension. I don't think it makes any difference to my children for better or worse. That's the entire point .

SecretMinceRinser · 06/02/2012 13:24

Well some people do think that working is better for their kids - socialisation in nursery, work ethic etc I happen to disagree but I don't think they're attacking me! Equally some sahp think that it benefits their kids in some ways. There will be plus and minus to both. And individuals will amke different calls depending on their priorities circumstances. There is no way that is definitively right or wrong.
You seem rather paranoid that everyone is having a go at you for some reason - even to the extent you will argue with points that haven't been made Confused

callmemrs · 06/02/2012 13:37

Yes , so you've banged on about 25 times ...

SecretMinceRinser · 06/02/2012 13:38

Well it is quite weird behaviour to be fair.

Wamster · 06/02/2012 13:49

When all is said and done, the fact of the matter is this: the person who works is the person who earns the money. THAT is the way the it is. Yes, if they are in a good marriage/relationship that money will be shared to their spouse/partner-as it should be IMO- but it is earnt by the working person.

In the event of a split, a married person can argue that they are entitled to their spouse's assets because they looked after children etc.
How this is distributed is dependent upon the judge, of course. Truth is this: nobody in their right mind would think it fair that a spouse who doesn't earn or look after children should be entitled to their spouse's money if they split if all they did during the marriage was cook and clean. They'd be lucky to get a small sum at best.

A person with a 'dp' may morally be entitled to their partner's assets if they have looked after their children as a sahp in the event of a split, but, legally they will get nothing if their partner dumps them.

So a sahp in a 'partnership' as opposed to a marriage really ought to be thinking about work in some form or making damned sure they can support themselves if their partner decides to end things.

SecretMinceRinser · 06/02/2012 13:51

Back to the original post. I find it a bit odd that some are saying that the earning partner 'chooses to share' their earnings. That's very nice of them isn't it considering that they have presumably had an equal say in deciding that their partner should stay at home to look after the kids - that they allow their partner and kids have food and clothes etc - maybe even the odd non-essential item. In the eyes of the law what you earn (if you live with your partner) is your families money - your partner can't claim anything if you choose to keep it - which is actually classed as financial abuse.

ElusiveCamel · 06/02/2012 13:53

God, this really is the thread that will not die Grin

missslc and SecretMinceRinser Do you genuinely not know why (some) WOHPs might take offence to the comments made by (some) SAHPs on this topic? It's the same as discussions on breastfeeding or divorce - they are highly emotive subjects where there is a widespread belief (sometimes backed up by evidence, often very split shonky evidence) that one 'side' is much better for children than the other. Often parents on the 'wrong' side of these topics are there because they have no choice in the matter and may be feeling very sad/hurt/guilty about it. Comments about how someone else 'made the choice' because it's 'better for children' can be really hurtful to other parents who may have liked to have made the same choice, but couldn't. And then it escalates. I'm not suggesting that every WOHP would like to be a SAHP at all, but there are definitely some that would and, to them, the suggestion that their working is harmful to their children (when they may already be thinking that) and it's because of them making a selfish 'choice' can be very upsetting. Same works the other way as some SAHPs don't have the same options to work available to them. I just assume that everyone wants what is best for their children and is doing their best.

callmemrs · 06/02/2012 13:54

Exactly wamster

Quattrocento · 06/02/2012 13:58

I don't know how much choice parents really have on the sah vs woh point.

For many sah, the childcare costs outweigh their earning potential and therefore there isn't really much choice

Similarly for many woh, their outgoings might be such that stopping work is impossible.

There are a few people who genuinely have the choice, I know. But not many IME

Warmster makes a good point about divorce - worth remembering that well over 40% of UK marriages end in divorce nowadays.

StealthPolarBear · 06/02/2012 13:58

Well as a WOHM I haven't managed to take offence to anything SMR has said.

SecretMinceRinser · 06/02/2012 14:00

The point I'm making though is that no sahms have said that it is a superior choice for anyone but themselves. Yes I can see it is a touchy subject for some - seemingly the people who didn't even want to stay at home.
As you have brought up breastfeeding (as if that needed to be added to the debate Grin) I think it's a good comparison. I didn't breastfeed for as long as I would have liked and used formula with both my children. I object to direct insults that I feel are unfair such as people sayingall mums who use formula are lazy etc but I don't object (which I have seen some do) to people talking positively about their breastfeeding experiences or talking about the benefits of breastmilk - that would be oversensitive imo.

Wamster · 06/02/2012 14:01

SecretMinceRinser, the truth is this: the person who earns the money earns the money the default position is that money belongs to the person who earned it.
If a dh decides to give his sah wife nothing, then it is up to her to challenge it.

But if your spouse is giving you no money to support you and his children, then you will split anyway.

The courts can then make all sorts of orders to ensure that a married woman gets money.

If married, that is. If 'partnered' up, it only has to make sure children are provided for.

People can believe all sorts of c*ap about their spouse's/partner's cash being their money, too. But, when things go bad, they find out otherwise.

ElusiveCamel · 06/02/2012 14:04

StealthPolarBear Me neither, but I am thick skinned :) My comment was a more general one but why these conversations stir up so much and why some get really nasty though. There are times where some comments about working might have got me down or if I'd been in a different situation. When I do read insensitive or stupid comments, I generally just roll my eyes rather than being upset.

Wamster · 06/02/2012 14:05

The danger of people being sahps is that -unless financially comfortable in their own right, in which case, it doesn't matter- they are at the mercy of another human being and the courts. That's not being nasty or disrespectful, that's just a fact.

SecretMinceRinser · 06/02/2012 14:05

I'm glad stealth it's honestly not mu intention to offend. None of my friends who work in real life find me remotely offensive and they would all wholeheartedly agree with me that it's important to use the best childcare you can afford. I doubt there is a mother on the planet who doesn't.