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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think that it's not ok for DS to be repeatedly hit

39 replies

camberwellred · 03/02/2012 20:06

Sorry stupidly long post.

My DS started school last Sept and soon established an intense friendship with another boy (both 5). Living so close to each other the 2 spent a lot of time together and consequently both his mum and I became friends too. However, since the start there have been numerous incidents of this friend pinching and slapping him - he has also pretty mean to DS and has also lied to get DS into trouble (which has left DS in floods of tears)

DS has always had great friends and is a real softy - I've never seen him hit out in malice so admittedly this has been new territory.

Anyway a couple of weeks ago the boy and after stating my DS had pushed him (this was agreed by all that this absolutely didn't happen and again my DS was in floods of tears apologising profusely - even though he didn't do it...) the boy went a step further and sought revenge and pushed, slapped and punched DS.

DH and I talked it over and felt worried for the ongoing effect on DS and the unhealthy dynamic between the 2. Being friends with the mum I told her that as much as a shame it was (for us all) we needed to send a clear message to our son that it wasn't right to be treated like this and how we felt pretty upset about it. She seemed mortified and affirmed us she would talk to her DS and that they would make a card together to say sorry (I thought this was a little airy fairy and a simple sorry would be fine but hey) I suggested a bit of space between the two would be good.

It's also worth pointing out that this boy has never really shown any remorse or apology for his actions, this has always come from the mum (which frankly I find weird) he is also very bright. Anyway after about a week and no card or apology happened -she pushed for both of them to play as if nothing had happened.

When asking what the deal was (slightly confused at the lack of apology one week on)she said her DS was absolutely not going to apologise as he thought DS had pushed him and she couldn't make him. She then said she hoped she had apologised enough for what her DS had done (for me, again weird) and that whilst she would like to reassure me that it won't happen again, it probably will and lots of times as this is what children do (problem is mine hasn't, yet...). She made me feel as if I am a completely inexperienced parent (perhaps I am) and I'm being completely OTT to not have things go back to normal.

So, now I'm doubting my values as a parent, and sanity, the whole situation has been really awkward and has left me questioning... am I being unreasonable?

OP posts:
AgentZigzag · 03/02/2012 20:12

I firmly believe in not getting involved in the DCs friendships, but rather give them the tools to try and resolve it themselves.

But this seems to be a situation that's gone beyond your DS sorting it himself (and he has tried) and I would probably do what you propose and say no to any more contact with the lad until he's learnt to control himself.

Even if your DS did push him, that doesn't give him the right to push, slap and punch him back, and it's a bit Hmm that that's been given as the reason for him refusing to apologise.

If he was my DC he wouldn't be given the option to refuse.

Snowbeetle · 03/02/2012 20:21

If this other child was my son he would be crawling on his knees to apologise as Agentzigzag says his actions are not justified no matter who 'started it'.

I think he is taking advantage of your sons nice nature and it isn't going to resolve on its own from the sound of it. Your son isn't going to retaliate and the other boy isn't going to start respecting him so there is no way the relationship can become balanced.

The other mum is bound to make out you are making a mountain out of a molehill, as otherwise she has to accept her son isn't that nice always, but from what you have said I would have done exactly same as you, so you need to stick to your guns.

It is hard when you are made to doubt yourself but consciously or not she has her own ulterior motive for doing that.

Protect your son and try to let the fall-out wash over you, when he is older he may be able to learn to handle that sort of situation, but plenty of adults would struggle to cope with that so at 5 he needs help and distance is the best solution without the support of the other mum.

good luck.

troisgarcons · 03/02/2012 20:38

One thing you will find @ the school gate is you will meet a mum who is lovely, but has the child from hell ..... and again you will meet a wonderful child who has that parent you cannot stand for love nor money.

Fostering relationships between children because you like the parent is a big no-no - the two have to be kept totally separate if you intend to keep that parent as a friend.

pictish · 03/02/2012 20:41

His mother sounds a drip, so he will keep doing what the hell he pleases.

NorthernWreck · 03/02/2012 20:52

Oh boy. I have a friend whose son used to hit my ds. She would just say to him "say sorry". Her ds would smirk, say "sorry" and that would be that. Until next time.
I felt like it gave the message that it's OK to hit, as long as you say "sorry" afterwards.
There was never any punishment from her, and he was only made to say sorry if I said something.
If my son hit another child he would be punished for it in some way, and it would be made very clear that this was unacceptable. Although this has never happened. Hmm
There will be lots of other kids your ds can socialise with. Forget about this one, as his mum is clearly not going to do anything.

Morloth · 03/02/2012 20:52

Nope YANBU, it might cost you the friendship with the Mum, but that is a small price.

I wouldn't be encouraging DS to play with someone who hurts him, fuck that.

Callisto · 03/02/2012 21:08

I would have knocked this 'friendship' on the head long ago. No way would I put up with another child routinely hurting mine.

saladsandwich · 03/02/2012 21:09

yanbu

my ds is 3 and so is my best friends ds, they are both push each other but for different reasons but when it happens they are told off, punished ect, i will get ds to say sorry and explain why he is saying sorry and my friend does the same.

at play group parents generally do the same, i think this parent actually seems approachable though so i do wonder if you could actually try talking again?

DoMeDon · 03/02/2012 21:16

YANBU at all - I loathe these kind of spineless parents. She is doing her DS a disservice, don't do the same to yours. Keep them apart and tell her why.

schmee · 03/02/2012 21:22

I've helped my son to deal with a similar sort of child by discussing with my son what good friendship behaviour is. Also about how to walk away from people. It worked well to try to find a way of getting my son away from the child without feeling him like I was forcing them apart.

AgentZigzag · 03/02/2012 21:30

The horrible thing is that the DC will have to have forced contact with people who'll upset them all their lives (at school/work etc), it doesn't make it right, but it's not always possible to shield them from it all the time so they have to learn to deal with it themselves at some point.

Your DS is only five though, it's too early to be learning the hard way.

marriedinwhite · 03/02/2012 21:31

Yanbu. Completely agree with troisgarcons. Your ds needs to make some new friends - that isn't difficult at 5. If you really like the mum keep up with her over a coffee but it doesn't sound as though she has your ds's best interests at heart and why would she her first priority is her ds.

I have some lovely friends, our children do not necessarily gel.

Catz1 · 03/02/2012 21:36

Walk away from both this boy and his mother.

You do not want your son being 'friends' with someone who hurts him.

I was in similar situation with DS 'best friend' nice to him at our house but bullying him at school. It took teacher to inform me that the friendship wasn't what I thought.

In long run (2 years on) DS quickly went on to make new friends, I lost a friend too (although she lost lots of free child care from me!) and DS is much happier and most importantly learnt what true friendship is about.

Hard lesson to learn, but being aged 5 it's time to move on and not let things get worse.

Original poster
camberwellred · 03/02/2012 21:37

Thanks for the feedback :) TBH saladsandwich after not hearing anything I did actually try talking to the mum again. This is when she looked at me as if I was barking and then followed it up with the 'he won't say sorry and it will happen a lot more" spiel. It totally threw me and my confidence in dealing with it, again in her words "this has happened a lot to us and DS has also been on the receiving end" as if it's the norm... I kind of think that I would be better off investing the time in my family as opposed to challenging her opinion...?
NorthernWreck I've seen that smirk - it drives me effing mad!

So, now I don't know what else to do. I've spoken to DS stating it's wrong but feel like I'm on dodgy ground with pushing it too far as I've been advised that he has to do the rest for himself? Problem is they still play a lot at school and this will probably be used as leverage to push for out of school playtime .She has already said "they seem to be getting on better now" which also left me fuming. Plus this has all happened outside of school (apart from the pinch which is nada in the bigger context) which in a way I wish he'd lose his shit in school so it'd be properly dealt with WDYT?

OP posts:
Original poster
camberwellred · 03/02/2012 21:43

ps - I've invested a lot of quality time with DS saying this is wrong, defining friendships etc but have been advised that he has to do the rest for himself. Plus, since this friendship started (although it could be starting school?) he's started having tandom angry outbursts. Am worried I can get 'heavy' with him and tell him on no cicumstance should he play with the child, but can I really control that in school? :(

OP posts:
marriedinwhite · 03/02/2012 21:45

OP here are some quote's:

"oh a play would be lovely but he's so tired this week because we did xx at the weekend"

"Oh that would be so lovely, but we are going out on xxx and I don't want him to be too tired the rest of the week"

"It would be so nice to see you both but I have had friends round on Tuesday and Wednesday and have so many jobs to catch up on".

developing quickly into:

"ds would love to have a play with yours but he has a play date already this week and we are returning it next week and he's getting so tired at the moment".

"Isn't it a pity the boys have been unable to catch up for such a long time, are you free for a coffee one morning next week".

You can do this OP. Find out from your ds who he would like to play with and give their mum a ring and invite them round.

Snowbeetle · 04/02/2012 07:42

Superb advice from marriedinwhite , sounds like you are worried you'll be peer-pressured into keeping up the friendship - I'm struggling to understand why, as preventing them from playing at school would be nigh on impossible but not arranging outside meetings should be a doddle unless you really care what this other mum thinks, marriedinwhite has given you some good ammunition there so I hope that helps. :)
Everyone has given some really solid perspectives on this and not one has thought you are on weak ground - trust your instincts! :)

OriginalJamie · 04/02/2012 07:56

OP, as someone says, she is being a drip. An apology is neither here nor there. Actions, hers and his, talk, and she gives every impression of being unwilling or unable to take this seriously.

I would talk to his teacher about what is happening. It should not be tolerated at school - they can be friends, but the frined must be disciplined for hitting, and your son supported to withdraw from the friendship if he is getting less fun from it than he is grief. as well as not arranging outside meetings

OriginalJamie · 04/02/2012 08:00

camberwell - "I've spoken to DS stating it's wrong but feel like I'm on dodgy ground with pushing it too far as I've been advised that he has to do the rest for himself?"

At 5, he should not be responsible for protecting himself and managing this, apart from telling a person in authority at school. It is the adults responsibility to protect him. Be very clear in your mind that there will be zero tolerance for him being hit. It is not a normal part of being a boy (I have 2 boys).

It is also for the others boys sake that his behaviour is tackled at school

OriginalJamie · 04/02/2012 08:15

I also want to say that hitting is a fairly common thing for 5 year olds to do. They lack self-control. So it's not about demonising the little boy. School and his mum should be helping him learn other strategies to manage his feelings.

cheeseycharlie · 04/02/2012 08:24

Have only read original post so don't know what others think. I just needed to tell you that I had a childhood "friend" like this, albeit when I was a bit older. The good times were so much fun, but the bad times basically amount to abuse and left me with serious trust issues and difficulties making new friends. Really affected my developing self esteem. This is important stuff I think you know this deep down. You are a good mum with your DS's interests at heart. Don't let the other mum muddy the waters for you. Just get your son to make new friends and wean him away from this bully.
Best of luck. Not easy as you have yourself made a friend you will now have to lose so I do feel for you.

cheeseycharlie · 04/02/2012 08:45

Plus you need to teach ds that he doesn't have to tolerate this sort of treatment. At the moment he is prob v confused and thinking he somehow did something to deserve it.

OriginalJamie · 04/02/2012 08:47

Very true cheesy. I did not intervene enough in my DS1s early school days, out of lack of confidence, and his self-esteem suffered as a result. Please don't let that happen OP

liveinazoo · 04/02/2012 09:00

id encourage other children from school round to play and try and foster a new best friend
a boy my ds class (who now has been diagnosed with adhd but hadnt at the time)was obsessed trying to get him to play and was too rough for ds.his mum pushed it as he had no other friends
i tried asked ds to invite other boys around and she queried why he wasnt invitedHmm
having picked friends for himself that play nicely it peetered out.
for the record im not anti"special needs"-we have numerous friends with autistic kids,but they are made aware behaviours arent acceptable.
at 5 i dont think its unreasonable to step in and protect your child
i

Snowbeetle · 04/02/2012 14:35

OriginalJamie is right it isn't about demonising the boy - he too is only 5. But it is about needing his Mum onside and if she won't even accept there is a problem there can be no resolution as his strongest message is that his behaviour is OK - whatever OP and her son do cannot outweigh the fact that his own Mum is not standing in the way of his behaviour. I think Cheeseycharlie has hit the nail on the head.