To think that I don't have a problem with authority, I just think that all adults are basically equal.

[thementalist]

It has been suggested that I have an issue with authority, so was just wanting to gauge opinions.

I feel that as an adult, I am equal to other adults, I know that some people have better jobs than me, get paid more than me, or vice verse, but fundamentally we are all just adults at the end of the day.

Recently at a meeting at DD's school with the head teacher and assistant head, I (politely) corrected something the head teacher said, and she said that she hoped my dd didn't have the same issues with authority as I did...

Also I took part in some research a few years ago and I was asked to take part in a follow up study as they had "never met anyone so off the scale", it was kind of centred around authority too.

I'm quite a pleasant person, I take instructions from my director, but would question him if I felt something was wrong etc. Is this normal? Am I a crazed deviant? Do i maybe not get the concept of authority, or authority figures??

I don't really like having to address people by title either, so I understand. There have been many times I've gone to meetings in a work capacity and introduced myself by my first name as in "Pleased to meet you I am firstname" to get a reply of "Oh I am professor surname" don't see the point in that really.

Mrsjay, I don't really think i do challenge people a lot, no. If i think something is wrong I will stand up and say, similarly if I think someone is being treated unfairly or whatever. I do like to find things out for myself and will often research things, but that is pretty normal isn't it?

I have a problem with authority and have got into trouble as a result. YANBU op.

Yes i think it sounds normal i dont know maybe your manner comes across as a bit brisk , MY dh is a bit like you in many way , he has been disciplined at work for it , he just sees it as standing up for himself sometimes i think he doesnt know when to keep his mouth closed ,

I know when people expect me to keep my mouth shut. But I fail to see why I should if we are equals. Like the HT expected me to keep my mouth shut when DS1 was pushed over in the playground and suffered concussion, and he falsified the paperwork in order to try to get the LEA to fund new paving for the playground by blaming it on a loose paving slab.

I didn't keep my mouth shut. I got copies of the accident reports, and the big form the school has to fill in afterwards (FoI request...), and I put in an official complaint to the board of Governors, the LEA and Ofsted. The HT now has a reprimand on his file.

Why should I have taken an equal lying where my dc was concerned? And manipulating a situation for their own ends? At the same time as not dealing with the actual bullying situation in the first place? Just because he has studied and qualified as a HT? I think not.

And Pranma - I had an issue with a GP. I needed an adjuct medication to my usual meds for epilepsy. The GP decided to prescribe me 'T', which I knew that because I had a family history of bipolar (my father), I shouldn't have been prescribed, as it would increase the risk of ME developing bipolar.

Should I have a) Ignored my own knowledge, said nothing, and taken the pills anyway, possibly resulting in me developing bipolar? b) Taken the prescription from the GP, said nothing, and NOT taken the pills, meaning that I was without the adjunct medication I needed? OR c) Explained to the GP that it was on my file that I had had a close family member suffer from Bipolar, and 'T' drug was contra-indicated for me, and maybe 'K' drug would be better.

I took option 'c'. The GP, thankfully, checked the big book he has, and agreed with me. It could have been very different had he NOT treated me as an equal.

I totally agree that adults are equal. We should ALL try to be polite and treat each other with respect, regardless of status. It's a good idea to be more than usually polite to anyone with any kind of legal powers though - I wouldn't get shirty with a police officer or a judge for example!

What some 'authority' figures seem to have forgotten sometimes is that although they have earned their power through years of training and doing the job, working their way up through the ranks etc. - they still have to remember that being in charge of something doesn't make them a dictator to be bowed down to, they are still a public SERVANT with responsibilities. They need to be respectful if they want respect in return. Even in the very strict hierarchy of the military, higher ranking officers (mostly, I hope!) acknowledge that they would be nothing without all the people 'under' them.

I may be a bit of a revolutionary though - I'm sure if I ever met any of the Windsor family I would be calling them sir/madam (instead of your majesty/your grace/my arse) and treating them the same as anyone else!

Larks, you're a teacher and you can't spell the word "intelligent"?

YANBU in this instance.
However, I also have a problem with authority, along the lines of AuntieEstablishment's example - if I think the instruction is stupid or unnecessary I am loath to follow it until I understand why it should be done, and may continue to grumble about it.
This can come across as insolent and arrogant, whether or not it was meant that way (depending on the other person's own security levels, I'd say).

Generally I agree with you though that all adults are basically equal and should not attempt to exert undeserved authority over another, except where it is relevant in a work situation. And even then only when necessary. There is nothing wrong in asking people to do stuff, rather than telling them "just because".

hmm guess I would fit that label but 2 tribunals and about 1001 arguements over My sons education .Then questioning Gp who said nothing wrong with my 1 year old and that i was a neurotic mum on that occasion I did challenege and when my son was dx 1 uear later with PD and GDD and Epelepsy .I then demanded and got a letter of apology

But i do try to stay polite partl because I know they expect me to fly of handle( am a red head) and it confuses them as harder to argue

I do agree with you, Spero, BUT, in this case, I think the HT's comment about broken homes would undermine her position as professional, if I were the OP.

OTOH, I have met many parents who are, from the off, deeply suspicious, indeed feel superior to teachers, and a dynamic of competition can get set up. Teachers have to manage this skillfully. Some are not as good at it as others, but it does definitely emanate from the attitudes of certain parents.

OP. I was not counting you in this camp, BTW

I am not brilliant with authority but work for a boss who lets her employees work on their own initiative, so ideal. At work I am self disciplined so I do not need an authority figure to constantly keep me on track. At home I am far less disciplined

I think too many people still believe the old saying "them as can, do; them as can't, teach" (in Yorkshire speak, as said by my Dad, a teacher) - which is a steaming pileo'shite. I've only taught adults who want to be in the class, and that's not all that easy; teaching a classful of children, some of whom definitely don't want to be there, is not remotely easy and teachers deserve far more respect than they generally get, IMO!

Sorry, that was to OriginalJamie.

Although ... you are the one who explicitly brought up the question of authority in the first place, before she said the thing about broken homes which makes me think that you are the one with an issue.

Thumbwitch - yes. I see this attitude a lot, especially from middle class parents. they have no idea.

I think you are rather oddly obsessed with this non issue - why on earth would you say that to the head?

You could have made your point by being firm, making clear you are not a pushover, without the authority/equality comment.

I would also wager you come across as far more belligerent and difficult than you think you do!

And probably have an insecurity complex hence obsession with 'I'm an equal'!

The HT is supposed to have authority over the DC not the parents.

Hopefully not the case here, but in my experience people who say "I don't believe in authority" are usually noisy, spiky prats.

If there were more people prepared to question and see themselves as equal like you mentalist then a lot of things that get swept under the carpet in our society would be challenged before they caused wider problems.

We are all people, obviously some people are more senior in a job role for a reason, but sometimes the experience of having been in the company 20 years or a fresh pair of eyes means that someone junior can highlight things management has missed.

I can't stand the supercilious nature of senior management in schools, because they talk to children all day like that they seem to feel that they can speak down to everyone. HT was rude and I would have put her in her place too!

I corrected dd's GP several times during the course of her last visit. She was very nice about it. But then I was very nice too. I think what made it work for both of us was that we were tactful and willing to recognise our own limitations: I recognised that she knew a lot more about general medicine and the use of drugs than I do and she recognised that I knew more about dd's condition (as I have had reason to read the medical literature on this one subject which she clearly hasn't done). I think my tone of voice when I corrected her made a big difference, and her tone of voice when she put me right certainly made a big difference to me.

Sometimes I do have a problem with teachers: they assume that nobody else can have a higher academic qualification in their subject and that nobody else can have had teaching experience. So if you are a history teacher you are going to be the authority on history, if you are a French teacher no parent can possibly know more French than you, nobody who is not currently a teacher at this school can know what it is like to be a teacher. I wonder if it is different in the schools next to the university campus. Wouldn't bet on it though.

I do believe in tactfully questioning authority, because that is how I like to be treated in my own profession: not rudely, but not as the fount of all wisdom either.

I've always felt the same - it's nice I'm not alone!

At work, in past jobs, when somebody really high up has come into inspect, it's always baffled me why everyone has run around like headless chickens! We're all the same, with the same feelings, hopes and desires...

:)

One thing that irritates the hell out of me in the workplace is a person in a higher position treating those staff 'beneath' them like shit. Barking orders, walking off mid conversation, neglecting to say please or thank you... I get really pissed off with it, as manners cost nothing and you weren't born a director/manager! I have much more respect for those in 'authority' if they remember their basic pleasantries.

I have also found that in my field, as they are directors, they are very out of touch with how the job actually works and try and base their 'orders' and advice on outdated information. I lose respect when this happens - you are meant to be my senior, directing this company to success, why do you not have a clue how the current system works? We also used to have a director that didn't know how to use email. WTF? You cannot be a director if you're that unwilling to learn. (He was from an era before email and just refused to learn).

You were arsey, weren't you?

"... which was maybe a bit arsey ..."

"...research .. as they had 'never met anyone so off the scale' ..."

Maybe you have answered your own questions?

You made three points.

1. You say " as an adult, I am equal to other adults ." As an absolute concept, I believe that is correct however we live in an imperfect, real world. We are not, and never will be equals even under the law - as anyone who has confronted a rich, well-connected opponent will easily testify.

1. You corrected the Head on a point of fact about an incident but were you 'equals' in that discussion? Was the Head having to rely on a report from a teacher or, in other words was she in the position of having to consider one version from one person and one from another?

BTW I agree with you that her comment about " issues with authority " was unreasonable when dealing with a you as a parent (in this context).

1. You said you " take instructions from my director " and quite rightly because as an employee that is what you must do. Questioning an instruction because you " feel something is wrong " is perfectly reasonable provided it is done with tact and on a sound basis but if you were constantly questioning then that would then become be unreasonable. (I am not saying you do this of course).

I wouldn't worry too much about the incident because I'm sure the Head will not. Don't forget she has hundreds of children to consider whereas you only have to remember one.

I do have a problem with unfair authority but I'm afraid, in this case, your comments about being equal probably came out sounding like a grownup version of "You're not the boss of me!! So ner!!". I do believe that all people, adults and children, deserve to be treated with respect and have their accounts of events/ideas taken into consideration. I do not believe that all ideas are equally valid because the person with them is also an adult.