To not understand why a Btec is considered equivalent to four gsces?

[Ouluckyduck]

It just seems totally senseless to me?

When I did my BTEC back in 1995 it was considered to be equivalent to 2 a levels!! My how times have changed! A BTEC is a level three qualification as far as I'm aware!

I would imagine it has three times as much work to do in it as a GCSE?

my btec diploma was worth alevels as well! you can go onto uni from btecs so it must be worth more than gcses or you would still have to do something higher?

Clearly you are not that intelligent then.

It is this kind of education snobbery that stops the education system in this country from evolving.

There are different types of Btecs. 'Firsts' are equivalent to GCSEs, 'Nationals' are equivalent to A-levels and 'Higher Nationals' (HND/HNC) are the first or two of university.

first YEAR or two of university. Doh!

I assume you are referring to a First Diploma? That is worth 4 GCSEs and the National Cert is equivalent to two A-levels.

That it is because it contains roughly the same amount of work and intellectual rigour as four GCSEs.

My mum often rages about this sort of thing. In her case, I put this snootiness it down to her own mediocre to poor showing at O/A-level: 'but at least they're proper qualifications'

For all the good they've ever done her.

This is what I don't understand, and I'm more than happy to learn: is a btec at gsce level studied in four times the intensity? So say three lessons a week go on a history gcse, are twelve lessons a week spent on a btec? Or how do you arrive at the one equals four thing?

So Gove is wrong (again!) to mess around with the league tables?

One could make the same arguement about equivalence of degrees from different universities or equivalence of different types of A Levels between 'traditional' subjects and more modern subjects.

Truth is, there is a pecking order of qualifications. Employers know it and no matter what Govt says, equivalence is in the eye of the beholder.

Someone with an HND in a practical/vocational subject is very much more likley to get recruited in some jobs than someone who just has A Levels. In other jobs HNDs are meaningless and an A Level in a traditional subject is all an employer will look at.

You would (generally) do one or possibly two btecs at a time and maybe a couple of GCSE's as they are a lot of work, its not something you can just replace one gcse with in terms of time.

If you actually take the time to see the amount of work that a student has to complete to gain a BTEC First Diploma compared to a GCSE you would soon see why the equivalence is there.

The reason why BTECs have a 'bad reputation' is just down to pure snobbery rather than actual knowledge. The Distinction criteria on each unit (you are looking at 8-12 different units depending on the units being studied as some are worth 5 credits, others 10 credits) are very difficult, there is a lot of evaluating and analysing in a vocational setting which requires the student to not only understand the theory but also to apply it to a 'real world setting' and then evaluate/analyse the issue in question.

This is a real high level skill in itself and well deserved of the 4 GCSE equivalence.

A student doing a BTEC Level 2 Diploma course does about 17 hours a week in classes. They will do seven units (topics) in a year, these will be seven units within a subject area, so, if the Diploma subject were music, they might do composing, performing, units on professional development etc.

Each unit contains an average of 3 to 4 criteria, each of which is marked as Pass, Merit or Distinction. All the criteria marks are fed into a computer, which spits out one final grade.

This is where I get a bit uncertain, and I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong, but I think if the final mark is a Distinction, that is the equivalent of 4 GCSEs at grade C.

The equality of qualifications is measured by the level of work produced and the standard required for a pass mark etc. Not by the amount of time spent being fed information in the classroom.

x-posted with cricketballs, yes, some units are worth fewer points, so more need to be done.

The other reason it's looked down on is because it's portfolio based and therefore it is possible, albeit unethical and unprofessional, to strongly guide a student into a pass whereas gcses are primarily exam based.

As I recall, my school offered BTEC Nat. Cert. in Business Studies and students would study that alongside one additional A-level (usually A -level Economics) to make it up to the workload that those of us doing three A-levels were doing.

IMO the inequality is more marked at A Level, which demands much more academically than the BTEC 'equivalent'.

It makes sense that academic and vocational subjects are assessed differently, but I don't understand why there is an 'equivalent' for Maths and English GCSEs. Apart from to massage the figures.

Actually one of the major flaws with exam based qualifications is the fact that a pupil is purely coached to memorise information and doesn't gain any real understanding of the information they have been given as they are never required to relate it to life.

Why are the less able students assigned BTECs to do while the more able ones do GCSEs? My DDs school do this to protect their excellent GCSE pass rate

A more charitable take on this would be that some pupils feel happier with continual/portfolio assessment than exams, wish to peruse a vocational career and need specialist qualifications and are better at doing practical things.

I did 3 A-levels when I was 18 and a Btec National Diploma (equivalent of 3 A-levels) a few years ago.

In my experience the difference is that if you have a phenomenal memory but are bone idle (like me), you can blag your way through your A-levels and get good grades. You can't blag your way through the Btec, you have to get your bone idle arse into gear and work .

As of next year in league tables, BTEC (cert or first) at KS4 will only count as one GCSE. Having taught both they both have their merits but it is impossible to fail a BTEC as students can resubmit work to achieve a Pass (GCSE C 'equivalent") which they probably wouldn't have if they had sat a GCSE.

All the girls I teach who have done BTEC at level 3 (national) which is very tough as the amount of coursework is hideous, are struggling to get into University compared to their A-level peers.