...to froth at this homophobic "Conference" being allowed to tour the UK?

[Bossybritches22]

OK re-posted from a less busy section but advised to post here as it'll get more reaction/support, my first AIBU so be gentle with me!

I'm so <img loading="lazy" class="inline-flex mumsnet-emoji" alt="Sad" src="https://www.mumsnet.com/build/assets/sad-q5SIe0Cq.png"> and cross I can hardly type, but here's the gist. 

<a class="break-all" href="http://www.humanism.org.uk/news/view/973" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">How can this happen in London 2012??</a>

It slipped under the radar as the press didn't get hold of it until after 9am yesterday and the "conference" was scheduled for yesterday afternoon and evening. It has been touring the UK I'm trying to find out where it is going next.

 They believe being gay is a malignancy and can be "cured"

I believe in the past US churches have been banned from coming here and spreading their bigotry  so should this one have been?

It has been pointed out to me that some of the exisiting churches in the UK are just as homophobic, in their own way.However I do think, gradually, there are more that are accepting of gay church members, I know we have a long way to go yet but tolerating this particular brand is particularly abhorrent to me. 
Thanks for reading this.

Is this quiet middle of the road church CofE?

If so www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2012/jan/28/archbishop-york-legalise-gay-marriage

This is exactly what I was talking about. The second in command at the CofE actively voicing that gay people do not deserve the same rights as everyone else enjoys, discrimination with god on your side which is allowed by our government. These are the morons we should be protesting about, they are the real danger to our young gay community.

"It's the most important right we have."

Don't quote me out of context.

Yes it's CofE. Of course it has its faults, but there are many in the CofE who are working towards full inclusiveness for gay people, women and everyone else. The Archbishop of York definitely doesn't speak for us all, I'm pleased to say! The liberal wing of the CofE needs to remain as active as possible, in order to challenge opinions like that of Dr John Sentamu.

"The Archbishop of York definitely doesn't speak for us all, I'm pleased to say!"

I'm afraid that at the moment he does. And frustratingly the CofE still has a huge influence on lawmaking in this country.

I was really shocked at Bishop John. I thought he was one of the good guys.
I cant defend what he has said. I am hugely disappointed.

I was pretty involved in my local church years ago. I was confirmed by him. I was thrilled that a black man had been made a bishop. Ironically.

When are people going to just give up on this fight to prove that gay people are not normal, are an abberation at worst and at best - to be tolerated.

We do not follow the scriptures in most any other aspect of our lives so why are they pulled out to prove points about homosexuality?

The message is peace and love and kindness.

If that makes me a wolly, pathetic half baked Christian I dont give a toss.

Free speech is a complicated issue and the 'hate speech' legislation has complicated things even further.

But I would say that there has to be a balance between your right not to be offended and my right to hear what these people have to say ( however nutty and offensive) Why should your right take precedence over mine?

You can't compare this conference to someone shouting 'n***' at a football match - they are not the same things. If someone was shouting 'queer' at an openly gay footballer you would expect them to be removed. But you can't ban people from discussing ideas, however offensive. I find pdychological studies into male rape of women as an evolutionary imperative offensive but I would never try to stop people exploring these ideas- they have to be explored and interrogated to get to the truth.

What I mean by "doesn't speak for all of us" is that definitely not all Anglicans, or individual churches, share his opinion. The issues of homosexuality, gender and more are constantly under discussion and review.

Some of the organisations looking to further equality in the church:

Inclusive Church
www.inclusive-church.org.uk

Lesbian and Gay Christian Movement
www.lgcm.org.uk

Women and the Church
www.womenandthechurch.org

Obviously I'm not in a position to set up my own church. So the best I can do is support those areas of the church which are interested in equality and fairness, in an effort (alongside others) to counteract fundamentalist or ultra-conservative views and stop them taking a greater foothold in the religious pie-chart of this country.

So OP which bit of all this are you opposed to? Is it the wording of the literature, the motivations behind the conference, the possible hypocrisy of certain leaders or the parts of the Bible that suggest the idea that homosexual acts are displeasing to God (as are all sexual acts outside marriage). Or are you objecting to all the above?

Popcornbiscuit, the religious pie-chart of this country is very difficult to make sense of; those links really help. I don't suppose you could do a quick overview of the CofE pie-chart for me? I am genuinely interested, not wanting a bunfight, honestly. I have heard, for example, that sectors which support women bishops tend not to support gay clergy? That seems contradictory/weird to me?

We do not follow the scriptures in most any other aspect of our lives.....If that makes me a wolly, pathetic half baked Christian I dont give a toss.....

I have to say, I think trying to follow the scriptures in most aspects of your life is kinda part of being a Christian. That doesn't mean persecuting people or not loving people but it does sometimes involve having different opinions to popular culture on some things.

I think Church of England churches need to be a lot more open about what political tendency they are, and what power struggles their clergy are engaged in, especially the jostling to be bishops, archbishops, and the archbishop of Canterbury. Poor old parishioners get trampled underfoot.

Are the evangelicals generally not that into hierarchy? They seem to do more work with the poor, rather than scrabbling for an archbishopric?

Yeah, sorry I have been away so long I was just getting a holy man to perform a blessing on some discharged covered fabric ....

Dont be obtuse. You know what I mean.

And have a to go along with that

"....but it does sometimes involve having different opinions to popular culture on some things."

Even if that different opinion is discriminatory towards a minority group?

This is exactly why religion should have no influence whatsoever on policy making. There should be no exception to a person's human rights being upheld.

"Dont be obtuse. You know what I mean.

And have a to go along with that "

Why would you bring a disagreement from another thread over here?

GBLT people have to realise they have to get used to being discriminated against in this country. It is a Christian country, and god hates poofs.

What other thread? What are you talking about?

I have just read my response to through again
Looked at the thread
Looked at your post
Thought about it.

Still dont know what you are talking about.

"Still dont know what you are talking about."

Sorry my mistake. You're 'obtuse comment' was identical to a post I made a while ago on another thread (Which wasn't even to you), I thought you were quoting me. My apologies,

Thank God (scuse pun) you responded.
It was driving me mad!

Well, we use the same phrases, we may have something in common even if it's not god

I'm forever astonished that people are surprised when followers of a certain religion (or denomination within that religion) actually, you know, follow it!

Some parts of the Bible teach that homosexuality is a sin (yes, yes, open to interpretation, Jesus never mentioned it specifically etc) and the Bible teaches that you can repent from your sins and to hate the sin and love the sinner. So it is abundantly obvious that some - albeit not all - Christians will believe that homosexual acts are a sin. Even the liberal Church of England believes the acts themselves are a sin.

So these people believe that homosexual acts are a sin and wish to help those who choose to go to their seminar, to repent.

Most of us here may not agree with them - that's fine, that's our right. And importantly it's our right to say so. But there's 7 billion of us on this planet and yet it would appear that some people are perpetually surprised when it becomes apparent that 7 billion people don't all agree on something.

If you don't like this conference then speak out, protest, write letters, buy a ticket and challenge them directly etc etc etc. You have every right to do all these things. But why are you surprised that they think this way?

And by the way, Christianity is no different to Islam and Judaism on this one.

And to the person who called the right to free speech, "bollocks", are you quite quite mad?

Try again, another one quoting me out of context. Go read my post again and you can apologise when you're ready.

"Even the liberal Church of England believes the acts themselves are a sin."

That's incorrect. There are many of us who don't believe that is a sin. And yes we interpret the tiny number of mentions of homosexuality in the Bible as being either misinterpretations (such as the alternative translation that it was a sin to be effeminate, i.e. a coward, weak, not brave) or the cultural views of the time.

Jesus does of course say that we need to repent of our sins, but that doesn't mean homosexual acts are one of them. Pride, judging others, dishonesty... there are myriad things which really are sins, but funnily enough that doesn't seem to preclude people who do these things from becoming bishops

Popbiscuit I was talking about the Church authorities, not individual Anglicans. Am well aware there are different views.

www.churchofengland.org/our-views/marriage,-family-and-sexuality-issues/human-sexuality/homosexuality.aspx

Oh those lovely authorities :o