...to froth at this homophobic "Conference" being allowed to tour the UK?

[Bossybritches22]

OK re-posted from a less busy section but advised to post here as it'll get more reaction/support, my first AIBU so be gentle with me!

I'm so <img loading="lazy" class="inline-flex mumsnet-emoji" alt="Sad" src="https://www.mumsnet.com/build/assets/sad-q5SIe0Cq.png"> and cross I can hardly type, but here's the gist. 

<a class="break-all" href="http://www.humanism.org.uk/news/view/973" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">How can this happen in London 2012??</a>

It slipped under the radar as the press didn't get hold of it until after 9am yesterday and the "conference" was scheduled for yesterday afternoon and evening. It has been touring the UK I'm trying to find out where it is going next.

 They believe being gay is a malignancy and can be "cured"

I believe in the past US churches have been banned from coming here and spreading their bigotry  so should this one have been?

It has been pointed out to me that some of the exisiting churches in the UK are just as homophobic, in their own way.However I do think, gradually, there are more that are accepting of gay church members, I know we have a long way to go yet but tolerating this particular brand is particularly abhorrent to me. 
Thanks for reading this.

OK we'll agree to differ on that one then Rhinestone, I am not sure that they HAVEN'T broken the law, to be honest, checking up on that one.

My main objective was to bring this to the attention of the straight community and generate some discussion.

If those who are struggling with their sexuality can feel that they are supported by others gay or straight and that this sort of bigotry (at home or abroad) is abhorrent, then it may give them the strength to walk away from the churches trying to cure or condemn them.

Horrible. Not only deeply insulting to gay men and women but also exploiting anyone who is confused or troubled about their sexuality.

Thanks bossy...ooh and YNABU.

"Inciting hatred" could be read so many different ways...I don't know how hate speech is different from that.

Also I think the New Testament might have had something to say about loving people and not judging them...there must a really bad translation of the bible in the States.

Yes, I know, I did click the link.

Those organisations are giving the organisers of this far more publicity than they could ever have dreamed of else.

And have made it easy for others to multiply that publicity; worldwide in the case of putting it on sites like this. It's giving the event a far higher profile, and must be very encouraging to its organisers. Who would have known anything about the event, were it not for the opposition? I should imagine that, if not actually inspiring the posting of info about it onto big forums, they are really pleased that someone's doing it for them.

It already 'toured' the North West and the local press did hit out against it. It has very much damaged some of the churches that allowed the seminars to go ahead. I know one of the congregation very well and it seems that churches strapped for cash are motivated by the income it brings. They don't incite hatred, it is a bit like 'hate the sin, not the sinner', so they get around the Equality Act.

Just to add Eastenders had a story line of Zainab taking her gay son to be 'cured', at the time it first really hit the UK. For some reason this didn't hit the main media.

I'm frothing too now. I don't think it's wrong to spread info about this group, people need to be aware that this kind of thing is happening in our country, and how damaging it can be to vulnerable LGBT people. Whilst great legal strides have been made, many people aren't aware of how much homophobia still exists in the UK.

NiceViper yes I can see your point. But staying silent is to condone it.

Not that I claim to be a pioneer, but if Martin Luther King had shrugged his shoulders, or Peter Tatchell, or Rosa Parks and said "well they're not breaking the law" or "ignore them they'll go away" then nothing would have moved forward.

As Burke once said " All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing."

As long as they are not inciting violence then let them have at it.
I think they're morally bankrupt and exploitative shits but I don't expect my morality to be a basis for restricting others.
Just as those that wish to froth, condemn and protest are equally free to do so and I'd probably support them in their rage at the message of these seminars but I would not support a ban on them.

Its called free speech, just because you don't like what they have to say does not mean they should not be allowed to say it

I don't understand why people bundle racism and homosexuality in the same argument. Homosexuality is different as it's still open to the nature/nurture debate. So, if it is nurture, then someone could be 'cured' in the same way any other psychological issue has the potential to be treated.

As it's considered a sin to various religions then I can see why a church would offer to 'treat' the sinners.

Personally, I lean towards nature and am not religious.

Interesting mayor & rabid

So if they held a seminar in your local church to pray for those in wheelchairs to repent their "sinful ways" and be cured, it would be free speech?

Their views DO lead to violence as it allows those with a bigoted ethos to think that homophobic atacks are OK as it's "sinful" to be gay therefore violence is acceptable.

Having a church environment backing these people normalises it and makes it acceptable.

Discrimination laws state that when a person feels he or she is discriminated against whether or not anyone else feels it is discrimination then it is.

That is what I have been taught is the law. I await someone with greater legal experience to clarify!

totem I think the old nature/nurture debate has been debunked.

There is great unrest within the mental health community that these practices are actually detrimental to the well-being of the poor sods who are co-erced into thinking it works.

There's a difference to views which may lead to violence and those that incite violence. If I am of the opinion that all the current woes of the world are due to tories/democrats and I make speeches to this effect then someone may of their own volition decide that this is a justification for violence. As such my speech which has at no time suggested violence or extreme action as a solution has lead to violence.

I've seen the discrimination legislation posted on here before but I haven't seen it tested yet and I'd like to hope that the description of "if a person feels they've been discriminated against then it is discrimination" would fail because it is quite simply a nonsense and unworkable.

And yes if a local church near me held such a forum it would be free-speech. I'd like to hope it's local parishoners would show sufficient disgust that the church would never allow it or that locals would let their outrage be such that it would render such a seminar as untennable for any group which wished to retain the support of the community, but if a group of like minded private citizens wish to hold a conference or speech which stated any number of views which I find horrific then yes they should be able to do so.

As a non Catholic, non-muslim and non-jew should I be able to stop their religious ceremonies because I find large tracts of what they teach disgusting, and I'm certainly discriminated against by their ideas.

You couldn't be more wrong about Peter Tatchell - he is a great advocate of freedom of speech and I applaud him for it.

For example (from Peter Tachell's own blog):

"Christian street preacher Dale Mcalpine this week won £7,000 in damages, following his arrest and detention by the police for saying homosexuality is a sin. He had expressed his beliefs to passers-by in Workington, Cumbria. As a result, he was charged with making ?threatening, abusive or insulting? remarks, contrary to the Public Order Act. A court case was pending, but was dropped. Instead, he was offered an apology by the Chief Constable, and compensation.

As a campaigner for gay rights, I disagree with Mr Mcalpine?s views. But as a defender of free speech, I endorse his right to express them. Indeed, I had offered to testify in his defence, had his case gone to court.

Freedom of speech is one of the hallmarks of a civilized society. Mr Mcalpine?s views were homophobic, but the fact that he was treated as a criminal for expressing them, shocked me. The officer who arrested him, although doubtless well-intentioned, interpreted the law in a harsh, authoritarian manner. Mr Mcalpine was neither aggressive, threatening nor intimidating. He did not incite violence against LGBT people.

The Public Order Act is intended to protect people from harm. And Mr Mcalpine?s views ? although they are misguided and offensive ? caused no injury or damage to anyone. His intolerant views should be challenged but he should not have been prosecuted. "

www.petertatchell.net/free_speech/Free-speech-christian-preachers.htm

OP you're absolutely right to be angry. But I dont think it should be ilegal. Making a fuss about it, putting it in the press etc draws more attention to their cause and more homophobic (in the closet) nutters to them. It swells their ranks and makes them think they are being noticed because we are 'scared'.

By simply dismissing them you show that British people could not care less about sexuality and are not interested in their opinions. Hopfully no one will go and they will just fuck the fuck off.

I feel sorry for them. They all appear to be gay men who fight a daily battle with their 'disease' when they could be having fun with someone they love.

Another evangelical church spouting rubbish! We have a similar problem local to me. A 'religious group' have chosen to open near here, meeting in a local primary school. They are claiming to be able to cure Autism, AIDS and other health issues. They are going into local shopping areas giving out leaflets. This sort of rubbish should not be allowed in this day and age, the is such a thing as the Equality Act 2010.
Check out their testimonials

And Peter Tatcheell also comes down on the "nurture" side of the argument, FWIW (at least to a certain extent):

"Ignore those researchers who claim to have discovered a ?gay gene?, says Peter Tatchell: gay desire is not genetically determined."

www.spiked-online.com/index.php?/site/article/5375/

(I post these merely to correct some misapprehensions about Peter Tatchell's views on these matters).

I don't agree with them but I hate the idea of banning free speech. So YABU.

I don't really understand those who take the view that we should ignore it and then it will go away. How bad does it have to be before it's worth making a fuss, then? Vulnerable people are being hurt by this 'treatment'.

From the American Psychiatric Association's website "The potential risks of ?reparative therapy? are great and include depression, anxiety, and self-destructive behavior, since therapist alignment with societal prejudices against homosexuality may reinforce self-hatred already experienced by the patient. Many patients who have undergone ?reparative therapy? relate that they were inaccurately told that homosexuals are lonely, unhappy individuals who never achieve acceptance or satisfaction. The possibility that the person might achieve happiness and satisfying interpersonal relationships as a gay man or lesbian are not presented, nor are alternative approaches to dealing with the effects of societal stigmatization discussed. ..."

Keepingupwiththejoneses mentioned a group that said they could cure AIDs - there was a news report recently that 3 people died after being advised to stop taking antiretrovirals by Evangelical Christian pastors.

There 'may' be criteria here which 'may' constitute a public order offence, inciting hatred of a minority group or suchlike.

You do need to accept that the real danger to progress for homosexuals in this country is from mainstream religion, christianity and islam. These American evangelists will have very little support IMO, this is not the US. UK churches exemption from discrimination law is far more damaging than a one off visit from a bunch of fundies. Let's face it, if they binned this lot they'd need to have a serious look at mainstream churches right here, and they don't want to do that.

Mainstream religions are the ones, sanctioned by the government, who are making homophobia acceptable, it might be subtle but it's just as harmful. Kids are growing up with the feeling that it's still not altogether right to be gay, the government says so when they make these allowances to the churches

If you want to protest, protest, but don't be hypocritical about it.

You might also want to look at this www.guardian.co.uk/science/2009/mar/26/homosexuality-gay-cure-treatment-orientation

BOSSY as the daughter of a wheelchair user I would not give a flying fuck and nor would my mother if they held such a meeting, if people want to have stupid views it is up to them, as long as they are not running amok tipping people out of wheelchairs or inciting others to do so.
Some religions think a disability in this life is punishment for sins in a past life, should we ban such religions?

I am Christian, I go to church and my Priest is bi-sexual and openly so. I have only ever had one of my "gay" friends say they wish they were straight.
I am of the mind that it is nature and that you can not make someone gay nor can you make them straight.

I'm not advocating banning free speech, or arresting anyone who wants to spout their ridiculous views in the park. This is a specific incident.

I'd love to ignore them and hope they'll go away, but I can't ignore calling our community lepers and likened us to having a malignant disease.

No-one has commented yet, but would you be so blase if they were anti blacks, Muslims, or wheelchair users?

I am aware I am frothing, but this is important to so many of us.

I have written to Stonewall, the Humanist society and the church who hosted this event asking for comments and how we can move forward.

If anyone else wants to join me the host church was
EMMANUEL CENTRE

9-23 Marsham Street
London SW1P 3DW
TeL: 0207 222 9191
Fax: 020 7233 1922

Free speech is vital. It far is more important than not being offended or keeping everyone safe from unpleasant views, activism or even terrorism.

Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both.

And this thread is the first I have heard of this bunch of idiots - I am sure they are greatful fir the free publicity

Sorry rabid x-post with you.