AIBU to think that most people with children who

[Hedgeblog]

say the phrases in regards to paying taxes such as

"I pay your wages mate (to anyone who works in the public sector)" or "I don't want MY taxes to pay for benefit scroungers" etc. are totally mistaken.

In fact the majority of people in the country barely cover the state costs of their own childrens education let alone their NHS bills, tax credits, child benefit, subsidised rail fares etc through their own taxes.

It costs the state 5K to educate 1 child of school age per year, add in NHS costs and you get the picture.

I hear this expression quite often it really grates on me. I know our society doesn't work on a zero sum basis but really unless your earning over #50K are in good health and don't have kids stop spouting on you pay everyone's wages!!

I do think it's funny that on Mn those high earners who are paying loads of tax and to a degree for everyone else always get slaughtered and a lot of, well, almost hate directed at them.

Gaelicsheep

"I think it's called a society isn't it? Or is the OP advocating some form of anarchist, every man/woman for themselves, kind of existence?"

I am not suggesting that at all. In fact in one of my posts I said I like our system.

My point is very clear, all through this thread repeated several times...........

I can't stand it when people say "I pay your wages" etc., especially when they actually don't because they simply don't pay enough tax.

sozzledchops

I totally agree

grendelsmum WTF?

Their bit of tax might very well be paying someone's wages. Or perhaps they've personally bought one of those missiles . I hate the phrase too, don't get me wrong, but you really can't set out a balance sheet for every individual's tax paid versus services received. And you can't say that just because a particular person might, at that time, be receiving services worth more than they pay in tax that they have no right to have an opinion on the services they receive.

sozzledchops yes. i like communicating with really different people in a way you never would in RL but misery loves company (sometimes) on MN.

Barstool economics

Gaelic
I understand where your coming from but ultimately they are not paying someone elses wages, it is an incorrect statement.

Yes it is, and yes I would be very very cross if someone said that to me. You could just as easily say I'm paying my own wages if it comes to that - there's a though!

Alouisee
I love it!

quite on the barstool story

Sorry - talking to my mum on the phone for an hour while drinking alcohol always makes me post nonsensical posts on random threads.

A more sensible point would be that I'm not entirely sure that earning over £50k, having no kids and being in good health would actually mark me out as a net contributor to the pot so far, due to my expensive education. It would be quite interesting to work it out.

First, I think iot would be a bloody rude thing to say. Just as it is rude to say to shop assitants: "I pay your wages, so.....".

On the other hand, there are some people who are net contributors and some who are net beneficiaries - at least in a monetary sense. There was a programme about this on the BBC in November - the top 10% of earners pay more than half of all income tax raised; the top half pay 89%. I can't remember the income band he said where you typically pay more in tax than you receive in benefits in kind (e.g. health, education), but I think it was about the top 25%.

bradbourne
i'd love to see that programme, can you remember what it was called?

"Your money and how they spend it". Two-parter - the first part about tax and the second about government spending (or maybe the other way round). Presented by Nick Robinson - I found it very interesting.

Ooh - just found an interseting web link when googling for the TV programme. Even includesa calculator to see whetheryou are a net recipient or not.

Some 60% of households are net recipients from the Treasury - though it may not always feel that way. The top 10% of households contribute, on average, five times more than they get back

It's not a zero sum, overall we take out more than we put in. The difference is the national debt, money borrowed from the future.

what fun - you dont have to earn a fortune to be a net contributor:

e.g. female, 30, £22K contributes a net of £1900.

"Your household is in the seventh decile, where one has the least disposable income and ten has the most. Households from the 7th decile and above, on average, pay more in tax than they receive in benefits and services."

if you put in high numbers:
"Your household is in the tenth decile, where one has the least disposable income and ten has the most. Households from the 7th decile and above, on average, pay more in tax than they receive in benefits and services."

so it is back to my argument at the top. mr/ms average pays for the services/he she uses (appx.)

'they might start drinking overseas where the atmosphere is somewhat
friendlier.'

Not if they weren't allowed to take their money out of teh country

I do think it's funny that on Mn those high earners who are paying loads of tax and to a degree for everyone else always get slaughtered and a lot of, well, almost hate directed at them.

Well yeah, cos if they ever stop paying tax then all that cool free stuff stops. Can't have that!

"The top 1% of earners - just 300,000 people - pay 27% of all income tax.!"

personally i would not like to see a 27% drop in the income tax take. plus if they are entrepreneurs they will take more jobs & taxs when they go

iirc about 1/3rd of taxpayers pay for everyone else, but about another 1/3rd are pretty much tax-neutral. But the trend is that welfare demand keeps on increasing faster than the tax base, and there is a concern that if the 1/3rd ever get fed up with it then all hell breaks loose.

There is a lot of dodgy information circulating here

someone earning £22,000 contributes
PAYE £2,905.00

National Insurance £1773

Then what about VAT ? 20% of their take home pay would be about £3400 not to mention council tax ,vehicle tax, petrol duty and that's if their a non-smoker and non-drinker.

I don't have much of a problem with the system. My husband is a high earner so pays a lot of tax. But that is how i'd rather society works and many people on low wages who might be taking more out than putting in could be doing really important jobs, benefitting many others.

Just wish there wasn't so much contempt directed at high earners, it's almost as though being in that bracket rules your opinion out and puts you up for any abuse.

female, 30, £22K contributes a net of £1900 not a total.

it you look at the tool, it agrees with you:

In the past year household member one paid £1,773 in National Insurance and £2,905 in income tax.