to think this shouldn't be MY fight?

[girlynut]

DP's mum and step-dad have a barn conversion in La Rochelle, France. Bought as a dump a decade ago and have done up to a beautiful standard with 3 bedrooms, 3 receptions, patio, garden and swimming pool. My MIL put in most of the money (she's partner in a law firm) and her husband did most of the building decorating work as that's his trade.

We've been there several times before, with in-laws and without, both before and after having our 2 DSs. My parents have taken friends there. DP and I have taken my brother and his wife down. So far, so good.

BUT this year I asked MIL if we could use the house for a week in Aug and take my cousin, her husband and 2 children, as they haven't had a holiday since before children were born and money is tight for them. As the children are similar in age (7yo, 6yo, 3yo and 3yo) I envisaged them all playing in the pool while we got piddled drank wine on the patio.

MIL said yes so I merrily arranged dates with cousin and booked flights. MIL now tells me that her husband says we can't go! Reasons range from "it's for family only" (even though they rent to complete strangers), "I've put a lot of work into it and don't want things broken" (we've never damaged anything before and would obviously replace any breakages) to "it's my house and i say so!"

MIL is incensed and was very upset. She dotes on my DP (her only son), me and her grandkids and I think her husband is a little jealous, as he doesn't see much of his son and grandson who live in Germany. She told me we'd have to talk her husband around and that if he refused she'd divorce him because she's so fed up with him making her feel bad about her entire family. (She's from a large Indian family and has many siblings who he doesn't seem to like)

She's now cleared off to Egypt with her sister for a fortnight and told me I'd have to discuss it with her husband and get him to agree the trip. AIBU to think she should sort this out? She said yes, after all, and surely as the one who put all the money into the property she should be able to agree who visits? Don't see why I should have to deal with the mean-spirited arsehole.

Sorry for length of post...

girlynut theres not alot you can do about it though is there? You cant force MIL to fight your corner with her husband? Sounds like shes had enough of fighting with him and has stepped out of the middle of this one (she cant force him to agree either, and its their joint decision). Neither can you force him to agree, and I wouldnt expect he will be willing to refund air fare

I agree with Manatee as the best approach. But you might just have to suck it up

been thinking about this (bored at work) and actually I think it is a bit odd (and possibly unreasonable) that you hadnt discussed this with your dfil, and only talked to MIL. I think in your situation if I was wanting to take cousins I would have asked them both. It is different to just yourselves going. And I can see how FiL might be worried about lots of different people enjoying his house, that he doesnt know and it escalating and escalating.

Talk to him

I can see how it might come across as presumptuous. However, we've used the house many times before with no problems arising and I guess I'm just a little shocked at his reaction.

We don't take it for granted at all. I know we're very lucky to be able to use it for cheap holidays and I was genuinely thinking of my cousin and her family when I suggested it.

I only asked MIL because she was at our house (she looks after DS2 on a Thursday). If we'd been round theirs or out for dinner, I'd have asked them both.

I agree that either DP or I will have to take the softly softly approach in order to resolve this. I feel bad for my MIL being stuck in the middle but I think it is coming to a head because her husband wants to retire to France and she refuses because she wants to stay near her grandsons. All a bit messy really.

Thanks for the advice. Oh, and it was over a week between asking and booking the flights. Daren't book the hire car just yet!

If there was a holiday home in my family, immediate or not and it was free, I would ask too. It is not like your best china only there for best, is it!? what does the OP have to do to simply ask if she can borrow it, write a formal application? she is family/friends.. surely you ask and job done.

Here is my 10quids worth.. You are family.. in a roundabout sort of a way. You have used it in the past. They have rented it out in the past. this shouldn't be an issue. You are not asking them to rob the crown jewels, are you?

It sounds to me like you are stuck in the crossfire of an argument between SFIL and MIL and that is definitely not yours to sort out.

It is rather messy, perhaps a quick apology to the rather sensitive SFIL and see if you can bring him round on his own.

Good luck

But it also sounds as if MIL is closer to her family.

It wouldn´t occur to me to ask for a freebie(?) for my cousins tbh, no matter how many times I had been myself.

Perhaps sFIL doesn´t think that "family" extends that far.

I can't see why you are getting a hard time OP, you've taken members of your own family there before and you asked MIL before you booked flights, so no presumption there at all.

Whoever said that their mum says yes and then their dad rings and says no, how odd is that? Is your mother not allowed to make her own decisions?

A lot of the responses on this thread are bordering on the 'well he is the Man so he must be in charge', which doesn't sit well with me.

Sounds like there is more to this though if MIL is talking about divorce etc.

I think SFIL is being an arse. You asked MIl and she said yes - that should be good enough. I don't ask my husband's permission before I make any decision and don't expect him to ask me. If either of us did something that the other wasn't happy about, we'd resolve it amongst ourselves.

Your MIL is behaving badly by saying yes, then buggering off and letting you deal with the fallout of her dispute with her husband.

I would call SFIL, tell him you wouldn't have booked flights if MIl had told you that he was not okay with this, but can you go ahead given that flights have been booked. You don't have to be arse kissy, just polite.

Then I would stop using my IL's house for cheap holidays. It's not worth it if you are not made to feel welcome.

don't get involved, you're right, its not your fight. not worth the hassle, put it out of your mind, put a deposit on a cheap camping holiday.

I don't think you've done anything wrong here Op. You politely asked, you were told yes and then you booked flights.

I wouldn't expect to have to ask both ILs seperately, I would assume that either one of them could speak for the other person, or if this isn't the case, then they would double check with the other person before confirming.

I would speak to FIL, mention the flights have been booked and ask politely if you can't use it this time. Then like someone else said, don't ask to use it again, he's clearly a bit of an arse.

Oh and also, if he says you can't use it, if it was me then I'd feel responsible for refunding your cousin's flights. I know it's not your fault, but as your cousins family is pretty skint and the problem is now through your side of the family, unfortunately I'd feel responsible for refunding them. I would also make sure that your MIL/FIL knew that you were going to do this!

I think the onus is on OP too, not to push the boundaries. Probably MIL thinks OP was being a bit unreasonable to want her cousins to get a free holiday at the expense of in-laws (btw, who pays for electricity etc. for the stay?)

Sometimes people feel uncomfortable saying no, and I think it is a bit unfair of op to put her in-laws in this situation.

I think op should just pay for a gite and not ask fil for a free stay. Alternatively, offer fil the rental price for the gite in august.

If it was me I would just look for alternative accomodation and keep out of the fight.

I would just look for alternative accommodation.

They might think that 8 non paying people, 4 of whom are children is a little too much in the middle of the holiday season. Also, if it is their rental property, it might already be booked?

Maybe you can suggest you either pay them, or book accommodation elsewhere, as your tickets are already booked.

Just out of curiosity, do you usually clean after yourselves, or do your in laws have to pay a cleaning service after each time you have been?

Yes, we would always launder all the sheets and towels, clean the toilets and bath, put throws over the sofas, dust and mop the floors. I wouldn't dream of leaving the place in any state other than that in which we found it.

My MIL is always very generous to us both financially and emotionally. Last year she lent us the money for an extension. She invites us for dinner every fortnight and has the children for a sleepover at hers every other month. I regularly tell her how much we appreciate all she does for us and what a difference it makes to us.

Her financial situation is none of my business but she openly told me that she acquired a lot of capital by becoming partner at her firm at the right time and, as a probate solicitor, she is well aware of inheritance tax and would rather help us out now than give it all to the tax man.

So I don't think she'd ever begrudge us using the house and even taking my cousin with us.

I suspect my SFiL's attitude is based a lot around jealousy as it is her money that has enabled them to live the way they do. Maybe he's just trying to exert some authority?

I do like the idea of just going in secret though!

Girly, sounds like a nice relationship you have with your MIL. Still, it might be worth thinking of a camping alternative in UK or France! But honestly, I really do not think its worthwhile getting caught up in "their" relationship. However, if you have "issues" (I did not realise you had already paid for plane) then you could be more political about it. Or change plane plans! Your call, good luck, don't get caught up in their c* though. summer is a long way a way, so maybe keep stum for a few weeks?

Girly I suspect you might be being a naive here. Just because people have money, doesn't mean that they are ok with sharing their wealth/home with someone they really have no relationship or friendship with, e.g., your cousin and her family. Even if they say they are ok, they probably are not, deep inside. I think this is MIL saying that FIL has a valid point and she will not fight this battle for you.

I don't see what inheritance tax has to do with your cousin having a holiday at your inlaws place. I think your fil has a very valid perspective, and yet you seem to belittle it.

Fwiw, we have a holiday home in France and while we may not say no, we definitely are aware when people are crossing a boundary and taking more liberties than they should.

You've booked the flights so if you don't resolve it you'll be out of pocket. I therefore think that the onus is on you or DP to sort it out if MIL won't. Or write off the money which I'd be very reluctant to do.

Alternatively look into renting a cottage in the same area of France. But that might prove costly.

It´s probably that MIL once again(?) made a decision without having the courtesy to talk with sFIL about it?

It is equally their house.

I wouldn´t invite anyone here without running it by my husband first.

I think I´d offer to pay rent at least, if that wasn´t already the case.

I am going to be unpopular here but perhaps you shouldn't treat their property as yours and keep inviting other people to stay. Have you ever bought them a gift or offered to pay (part of the rent they will get if property was let out) after you've stayed at their property.

Not sure why you are thinking about the potential inheritance.

It's his house too, your mil had no right to say that you could use it if he didn't agree. He is being petty to disagree, there is no doubt about that, but if he wants to be petty over something that is 50% his then that's his prerogative.

I wouldn't be having a fight with him about it, I'd be seeing if I could get a refund on the flights.

kitchen roll how is fil being petty? Would you be happy to let random strangers stay at your place? Why do people assume a second home is not a personal, private haven like a main home...yes, they may let it out for rent and share with family and friends, but why would anyone think it is 'open house' for random, distant relatives?

If you cannot afford to pay for a vacation, don't go. Not sure why it is 'reasonable' to expect fil to provide holiday accommodation for all and sundry.

By 'you' I mean op and her cousin, not you personally, kitchen roll

YANBU. Ignore the flak merchants. manatee's advice is good.

Bloody marvellous! It all kicked off last night and I've spent most of tonight in tears.

Following the excellent advice on here, I agreed that the best way forward was to discuss the problem opening with MIL and SFIL. So I called them. And left a message asking if I could talk to them both about going down to the French house and please could they call me back to discuss it.

MIL called me back and said SFIL was even more cross at hearing my message. Her exact words to me were "But don't worry. He'll calm down. We just need to talk it through with him."

At dinner a few days later, I suggested to MIL that it would be a good time to have a chat. But she was very clear that she didn't want me to raise the subject as her sister was joining us and she didn't want a row in front of her.

Over the following weeks, I suggested to MIL on several occasions that we needed to talk to SFIL. But every time she said "It's OK. You are going on holiday to our house in August. I'll sort it out."

Only she didn't. Last week she told me they were driving down to La Rochelle and, thinking everything was resolved, I asked whether they had room in the car to take a travel cot down as it would be easier than us taking it on our flight. "Yes, fine" she says "No problem. Drop it off at ours". I specifically asked whether she'd discussed the matter with SFIL but she was very vague and just said "He'll be fine about it."

So yesterday afternoon I did. As nobody was home, I left it on the doorstep.

Last night I had a call from SFIL yelling down the phone about how upset and cross he was to discover this travel cot on the doorstep. He'd asked MIL who'd obviously told him and he'd gone nuclear. I immediately apologised and told him I could understand why he was upset as he'd heard nothing more about the matter since early Feb but that I had called and left a message (which he acknowledged he'd heard) but MIL had told me not to raise it again and she would sort it out with him.

He started going on about how he didn't want anybody else to use the house as he'd put a lot of hard work into the place. I queried why this had changed from previous occasions. His explanation was that rental guests paid a lot of money and that went towards the bills. He said that, although MIL had lots of money and paid some of the bills, he didn't have her income although he wished he did. He was thinking of selling the place and splitting the proceeds between them so "at least then I'll have some capital behind me". I offered to pay rent but he said that wasn't the point.

I told him we wouldn't go and we'd make alternative accommodation plans as we couldn't cancel our flights. This was obviously a bad move, as he had no idea we'd booked flights and had thought we intended to drive down!

We ended the call and agreed to talk more later as we were both getting quite cross.

I'm really upset now and worried about what will happen. The reason we asked to go to their house is because money is tight so, if I'm honest, we can't really afford to book other accommodation. I'll also have to give my cousin her flight money back as none of this is her fault.

And I'm pretty bloody cross at MIL for being such a wet blanket. I mean, what did she think would happen when she loaded a travel cot in the car as they were setting off? I've spoken to her tonight and she said she was too scared to raise it with him because he'd get cross.

What a mess! I feel like I've been dropped into the middle of their relationship difficulties. MIL says that she's sick of him never wanting to do anything for her family. He says he's sick of her family coming first and that she does too much for us. Personally, I'm sick of the lot of them and wished we'd just gone caravanning in the West Country!

Please be gentle as I'm running out of tissues....