to worry about which class I belong to?

[StickyFloor]

I am feeling really uncomfortable in my own skin class-wise or maybe I mean status-wise and I don't know why I even care - does anyone else feel like this?

I grew up in a fairly posh environment, private school, sheltered circle of friends etc and going to Uni was a shock tbh. Then I worked my way up through a big company where we were all from similar backgrounds and I was again quite sheltered. DH comes from a middle class background and is a bit of an inverted snob, but never been a big thing at all. He worked up in the Council so well-paid but not mixing with posh people and was very happy.

Circumstances have changed and I abandoned working completely when I had the kids. They go to the local school where NOT ONE other parent in the class of 30 went to Uni and i can only think over half a dozen who have ever worked at all. Initially i felt so out of place but am happy to have made some lovely friends and although they tease me about being posh etc again nobody really cares and nor did I. This is my life now and all was well.

But 3 months ago dh took a new job in a very different company where he is virtually the only person not from Oxbridge. He could not care less, and clearly nor does anyone else but I think he finds it quite funny and sort of plays up to it, as though he came from a home with an outside loo and coal for tea. Last night I went with him to a works do and I felt really uncomfortable. I felt out of place. I hated dh acting up to be as un-posh as possible and I didn't know how to behave. I felt like evryone was looking down on me, or at least saw me the same as they see him - and it really bothered me. I felt like I wanted to say I used to be one of you actually (I didn't).

I think i am coming across like a total loon or at least an awful snob. I don't know why this upset me so much.

Any thoughts, or do I need to give myself a stiff talking to?

StickyFloor, if you are not going back to work, are there voluntary roles you might want to do or perhaps part time study? That might make you feel you have your own identity a bit more. Perhaps you're reflecting a little on who you were and what you did in the past because you'd like a little bit more in your life now.

Will there be a reasonable school available when your children are secondary school age?

If you are interested in voluntary work, I can recommend this website :

www.do-it.org.uk

I came back to say what Catgirl did, so what she said!

'They go to the local school where NOT ONE other parent in the class of 30 went to Uni and i can only think over half a dozen who have ever worked at all.'

OP, I went to uni- and have a postgrad- and I am the biggest chav. :o

Sorry, I have been away, but just wanted to reply to those who kindly took the time to read this and respond.

No, going to University does not make someone posh, and I don't consider myself to be upper class either, never did, but I can identify different strata of people inbetween the extremes of "chavs" and upper class twits and dh and have always been quite far apart in that respect.

Garlic, the other mums at school may not have been to Uni but I am not criticising them or calling them Chavs, it is just a statement of fact. They don't value education and openly discuss the fact that they don't see the point of exams and school as there are no jobs out there anyway etc. I am not generalising either that is genuinely the feeling amongst parents, who are also with a couple of exceptions, all very lovely people and fun to hang out with.

I have been squirming all weekend about the other night and still can't get over myself. I think it might be the work thing more than anything else - working used to give me an identity and make me feel worthwhile. But that really depresses me, I don't think anyone should be defined by what they do and how much they earn, that's terrible.

BTW I do do some voluntary work already as I didn't to be completely idle once the kids started school.

I haven't got loads to add but I do have some empathy with you. I grew up in a 'posh' place, went to good uni etc and consider myself to be higher class than my DH even though both of us would be classified as 'middle class'. I agree there are several strata of 'middle class'.
I remember when I worked for a big prestigeous city firm my DH used to think it funny at my work 'do's to say he worked in a power station shovelling coal to see people's reactions. No mention of the fact he also went to uni, had a highly qualified and respected job. I used to find it really embarrassing as he was clearly taking the piss out of my colleagues and me, again doing it because of his inverted snobbery.

I also found it hard to accept the change from big city career woman to part time working mum, my old job was very prestigious, highly paid and very hard to get in to. Now I work for myself, which is a different kettle of fish even though I like it and it suits the family.

I don't agree there is no such thing as class any more, there is no such thing as class if you only mix with your own as you're not exposed to others. I don't belive being rich makes you higher class either, contrary to some opinions.

Anyway some sympathy comes your way from me :-)

How nice of you descibe the upper class as "twits" and the lowest class as "chavs"...... hmmm

I can understand your concern about your DCs attending a school where their peers are not being brought up to value education - that would worry me too so I can see your issue there.

Worrying about people confusing as being lower middle when you are just middle is a little odd as you yourself have said

It does sound like you have lost some of your identity when you gave up work and might feel happiier when or if you go back, I don't think that has much to do with social class though, more your own personal sense of value and identity. Income factors very little in the class equation.

tbh I always think those who say they don't care about class are those who have never been affected by it. It is uncomfortable to be in a social situation here people make assumptions about your "status". And I think moving between classes does present some dissonance. I come from a poor background but know and work mainly with middle class people. People who don't know me often assume I come from the same type of background as them. And it si uncomfortable sometimes.

If you speak to others who have moved obviously from 1 class to another i.e. big differences, not small graduations, I think you would find your feelings to be pretty common. But I have long ago given up getting someone who hasn't experienced this themselves, to understand this.

I can understand your concern about your DCs attending a school where their peers are not being brought up to value education - that would worry me too so I can see your issue there.

That would be my biggest concern too, as kids are hugely influenced by their peer groups. The rest is neither here or there.

I have absolutely no idea what class I am, or what my family are. Does it matter?

My parents were very poor when I was a baby/toddler. Very poor. Did that make us working class? They worked up and their careers took and we had a lavish lifestyle for the majority of my childhood and teens/early adulthood. I enjoyed the spoils of this in an upper-middle class way. Did that make us middle class?

Or were they always working class because they always had to work for those spoils?

I've always worked - am I working class, because I work, or middle class because of my experiences of my parents affluence later in life?

My husband will be able to afford me being a SAHM parent when we have babies - what does that make me? Working class or middle class?

I don't understand any of it, and I kinda think it only exists for those that subscribe to it. It's a pointless, non-entity. You wouldn't believe from my accent that I'm from a small mining town in Yorkshire. You wouldn't think - on first physical/vocal appearance that my husband is from South Norwood, south London. Who the hell cares, really? Not me or my husband. A good friend of ours, from Bermondsey, asked me the other day what kind of background I had because he couldn't equate my career/accent/education with where I grew up. I said I was working middle class because I had no idea, was proud of the things my parents achieved and love a bit of hard grafting to get where you are!

Really - who cares?

I'd move my children to another school if I were you. Either they'll adopt the same values and aspirations as their peers or, as they get older, they'll be ostracised and reviled for 'being posh': i.e. expecting to achieve academically.

I think anyone who doesn't understand the issues at stake, thinks that 'class only exists if you buy into it', or that you should 'just be yourself' has led a very sheltered life, or at least has had comparatively little experience of the class system as it still exists in this country. (I am not British, incidentally, so this is a foreigner's perspective.)

Like you, I am a bit of a class migrant in some ways (but gave up long ago on trying to define myself). I grew up right at the bottom of the working-class, and we were very poor (outdoor loo, sharing overcrowded house with extended family, lots of unemployment and strikes when local heavy industry crashed in the 70s and 80s, never being able to invite friends home as no space or spare food), went to the notoriously failing local school where more girls dropped out pregnant than went on to any kind of further education. I was bright, and by a combination of stubbornness and good luck, ended up at Oxford, where I found myself mixing with the kind of middle, upper-middle and upper-class people I had never really known existed before, and of course, conversely, because of others' responses to me, became aware as never before of being working-class - wrong accent, wrong manners, wrong clothes, close relatives being binmen and street-sweepers etc.

The result is that I don't really fit in any class - I have a doctorate and a professional job, but little money, and have friends from various class backgrounds, but moving between worlds can be intensely uncomfortable, and people still quite visibly judge me all the time, because I don't quite 'add up'. Now that I'm pregnant for the first time, my partner (same background as me) and I are facing questions about where our baby will fit in, and what his expectations of life will be as we face decisions about education etc.

No words of wisdom, OP, just to say, you aren't alone. But I would take the issue of your children's schooling seriously in your position.

There are only three classes, posh, common and pikey. You are posh if you don't notice people of a different class, you are common if you resent them, you are pikey if you steal from them.

They go to the local school where NOT ONE other parent in the class of 30 went to Uni and i can only think over half a dozen who have ever worked at all.

How could you possibly know this? Did you do a poll at the school gate?

If you there think that there is genuine concern over the attitude to education and work that your dc may be being influenced by then I would consider moving schools.

hardcheese - You put it much better than me - thank you.

Similar story to me lesley, and hardcheese

I do sympathise. I find myself taking my accent down a few notches to fit in in most environments, as I got fed up with being teased about being posh every two seconds. Class is still alive and kicking in many arenas in this country sadly, and it works both ways!

I think this has more to do with your feeling a loss of identity now you don't work though, are you going back or is this permanent? I don't work at the mo, didn't go back after dd who is 18 months and am pregnant, but haven't really struggled with it so far. Doesn't stop me dreaming of all the stuff I will do in the future though, perhaps get cooking up some plans!

People are very obsessed with class in this country. It's weird.

Not sure why it would bother you what others think of you. Don't you find most people can size you up in about 2 seconds flat? I know I can.

Feeling out of place, feeling looked down at (even if imagined) is very hard. I do think it was more of confidence than a class issue for you really.

When I found myself in similar position I always remind myself that people have very different starts in life, different potentials, family circumstances etc. So comparing myself to others doesn't have much sense. I may come across as a failure to many people but only I know how much effort I put even in getting where I am now.

I think it is like white people saying they don't see or rarely see any racism - it isn't that visible if you aren't affected by it.

And no I don't think people can sum you up in 2 seconds flat if you have had big moves between different classes.

Things that happen to me frequently are:

1. Meeting friends parents - what do your parents do? Well they are retired but my dad used to be a janitor? Look of shock or surprise as this doesn't compute with their "image" of me.

1. When my mum died recently lots of people asking - are you selling her house.

posted mid post by mistake - sorry.

1. No she lived in a council house, the house went back to the council.

1. What does your brother do A - he is a bus driver - look of surprise or shock.

1. People assuming you have had the same childhood experiences as them or similar because they assume a similar income level. So things like, well everyone's mum stayed at home those days. A - no mine didn't, she worked in an office - like most mums where I lived.

1. Hiding habits or having them laughed at when you have acquired them because you experienced poverty and you know others from well off backgrounds wouldn't understand e.g. keeping too much food in the house because you are frightened of being hungry.

The class system is still very much alive and kicking.

And it is very hard to assimilate to a different class. I was brought up working class/under class. I now live for all intents and purposes an upper middle class life style.

But I will never identify as UMC. I have an entirely different mind set.

I am super posh, dh was/is working class. DH went to Oxbridge, I didn't go to university. Can't you just both be yourselves.

I don't get this at all. I don't think the class system even exists anymore in the way I think the OP is referring to it.

I go about life with the attitude that no one is better than me, I can make myself comfortable in any company and hold a conversation with anyone.

We re all different. Just enjoy people for what they are, some you will get on with, some you wont. Their background doesnt matter a jot - in fact the more differences there are, often the more interesting it makes them - and they ll enjoy your re being different too, as long as you are comfortable about who you are.