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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think baby's health should come before mother's feelings?

92 replies

missduff · 22/01/2012 16:43

I have 1 dc and I'm currently 9 weeks pregnant and the other week it dawned on me that in neither pregnancy I've been given any information about alcohol in pregnancy and the possible affects it can have on baby.

It doesn't really make much difference to me as I think I have a rather sensible attitude towards alcohol: none in first trimester and then maybe a unit or 2 on special occasions (birthdays/Xmas etc).

But I know there are a lot of women who are very ignorant and think 'oh it won't happen to me' so I think for this reason it would be good for the nhs to educate women about FAS.

I asked myidwife at my booking in appointment why they give us so many leaflets but why do they not give us one about drinking in pregnancy, her answer was ''we don't want to scare women''. Her point was that a lot of women have already been drinking in early pregnancy before they find out so I suppose the fear may be that if they give a woman a leaflet saying ' this is what can happen to your baby if you drink' then a woman may terminate the pregnancy unnecesssarily.

BUT what about the women who just don't know? Isn't it better to educate the women and try and tackle the UK's ever increasing rates of FAS? Which btw the figures are totally innacurate, it's thought that a lot of children with FAS are just diagnosed with autism.

I just think that the health of all these babies should surely be put before the woman's feelings?

OP posts:
ReindeerBollocks · 22/01/2012 17:25

*and

Dirtydishesmakemesad · 22/01/2012 17:26

I am in the north west too (merseyside) and had a leaflet or two about it including a question and answer thing which you gave in at your booking in appointment asking how many units you drink etc. Its everywhere!

McHappyPants2012 · 22/01/2012 17:29

when i had my booking appoinment the mw asked both times how many unit of alchol i was having, i didn't drink in the 2 week wait, so i said 0 so she didn't give me advice on alchol.

Heswall · 22/01/2012 17:31

Depends on the nurse/midwife, I heard one say she feels sick walking into houses because the stench of fags is so bad but didn't say anything to the mums because they know and are choosing to ignore the advice so there's no point in making them feel bad. (North Wales)
I'd make them feel extremely bad if it was me but there you go.

TheFallenMadonna · 22/01/2012 17:31

Yep - it was discussed at my booking appointment each time. Perhaps I look like a bit of a lush...?

WaxyBean · 22/01/2012 17:32

I don't recall any specific information being given at my booking in appt for DCII (in October) but then I don't really drink and told the m/w so. Second time round they seem to assume that you have been told and remember a lot from the first pregnancy.

laptopdancer · 22/01/2012 17:32

I had NO education at antenatal appointments or bookings (NW)

Original poster
missduff · 22/01/2012 17:34

link between fetal alcohol spectrum and autism
Read that and then tell me they are wholey different conditions.

Come and work with a room of children with learning problems, none of whom have a diagnosis of alcohol fetal syndrome or alcohol fetal spectrum and then wait until there parents pick them up stinking of weed and booze and then tell me there is no link.
I am in no way shape or form saying that all learning problems are caused by alcohol, I'm just saying that there are so many children out there who have been affected by alcohol in pregnancy but who have been diagnosed with autism and/or ADHD and therefore no statistics are ever going to demonstrate the current social problems with people drinking in pregnancy.

Maybe my view is different because of the work I do and also the area I do it (rough as f*), maybe if I lived in a middle class area and sat behind a desk all day I'd be blind to it too.

OP posts:
SardineQueen · 22/01/2012 17:37

"I was watching a programme called Pissed and Pregnant the other week and in some states in the US it is a crime to drink whilst pregnant and they tell women of a child bearing age to consider themselves as 'pre-pregnant'."

Are you suggesting that this is a good idea?
Because it isn't.

I also like your mis-spelling "feral alcohol syndrome" Grin

And when I had my booking visits for both pregnancies they asked how much I drank, and intended to drink during pregnancy. And I am sure that if they didn't like my answer / quite believe what I was saying they would have told me plenty. I am sure there was info elsewhere.

Also seriously how many women do you think are that thick that they have not heard that excessive drinking when pg is a bad idea?
And haven't you noticed that bottles have warnings about drinking in pregnancy, and some have a picture of a pregnant woman with a line through it?

I mean, seriously.

McHappyPants2012 · 22/01/2012 17:38

missduff........my son has austim and i didn't touch 1 drop of alchol in my pregnancy.

NinkyNonker · 22/01/2012 17:38

The purple book etc isn't given our any more due to cost. Tbh I've never been told about it either, I guess I just knew. Perhaps they assume everyone does?

I don't think most women are ignorant about it either, some just choose to ignore. Drinking before about 6 wks has no impact, perhaps it was this she was referring to.

GlaikitFizzog · 22/01/2012 17:38

Missduff, were you asked about your alcohol intake at your MW appointment? I know that here if you say over a certain limit that instigates the leaflets and information. If you say "I don't drink" then there is no need to give said leaflets.

edam · 22/01/2012 17:39

missduff, are you actually recommending that awful American approach of criminalising pregnant women? And insisting that all women consider themselves pre-pregnant? That's appalling. Do you not realise that's an assault on the human rights of half of humanity? Competent adults must be free to make their own decisions otherwise they are being treated as somehow lesser beings, merely by virtue of gender. That used to happen to some extent wrt race in the US - calling black men 'boy' for instance, denying black people the vote in the Southern States and insisting they sat at the back of the bus. Thankfully lots of brave people protested - even lost their lives - to ensure that you weren't treated as sub-human merely for the colour of your skin. The same principle applies here - adult women are full human beings who are entitled to the same autonomy as men.

stoatie · 22/01/2012 17:42

It may depend on area, but in most areas, first time mothers are given the pregnancy book (purple) that discusses alcohol - most areas don't give it out for second time mums as they assume you still have it

[http://www.dh.gov.uk/prod_consum_dh/groups/dh_digitalassets/@dh/@en/@ps/@sta/@perf/documents/digitalasset/dh_107679.pdf]

For areas that have the Perinatal Institute antenatal notes (green), you should be asked about alcohol intake in each trimester

[http://www.preg.info/pages/notes0203.pdf]

and more info here

[http://www.preg.info/pages/notes2021.pdf]

hope links work Grin

SardineQueen · 22/01/2012 17:42

Foetal alcohol syndrome has specific markers which can be diagnosed in babies.

Are you talking about FAS, or "foetal alcohol spectrum disorder" which is a lot more woolly and with a lot more question marks?

StealthPolarBear · 22/01/2012 17:42

"in some states in the US it is a crime to drink whilst pregnant and they tell women of a child bearing age to consider themselves as 'pre-pregnant'."

aka walking incubators. How deeply unpleasant.

Original poster
missduff · 22/01/2012 17:43

Yes at booking in appointment they asked about alcohol and I answered that I'm not drinking at all anymore so of course she didn't need to discuss it with me any further.

The thing that worried me more was that when I asked 'why is it I've not been given any info about alcohol in pregnancy?' she said 'we don't give any information because we don't want to scare women who've already been drinking'.
I found that worrying.

OP posts:
SardineQueen · 22/01/2012 17:44

"Yes at booking in appointment they asked about alcohol and I answered that I'm not drinking at all anymore so of course she didn't need to discuss it with me any further."

Oh right then. Yes that is a HUGE problem.

meditrina · 22/01/2012 17:44

They are totally separate conditions. For one, the cause is known (and is preventable) and there are also physical characteristics.

This is not true of autism, and I think it is both harmful and hurtful to lump them together.

NinkyNonker · 22/01/2012 17:45

Purple book isn't done any more.

SardineQueen · 22/01/2012 17:45

OP has not said whether she is talking about FAS or FASD. Using the terms interchangeably. Which is not a good sign that OP really knows what she's on about IMVHO Smile

WorraLiberty · 22/01/2012 17:46

Lol @ 'Pre-pregnant'! Does that mean being overweight whilst 'pre-pregnant' is a crime too? I mean, it causes risks to both the baby and Mother.

As for warning pregnant Mums about alcohol, I was given leaflets and information in all 3 of my pregnancies and there were posters on the surgery wall.

laptopdancer · 22/01/2012 17:47

I wasnt asked about alcohol, nor did I receive a brochure

Original poster
missduff · 22/01/2012 17:48

And yes I'm not saying that we should make it illegal to drink in the uk or that we should all consider ourselves as pre-pregnant , just demonstrating the dramatic differences in attitudes.

It sounds like every area is different and i have probably been unlucky with the info i have received but I still think this country has a long way to go to change the attitude of some women in this country.

OP posts: