To wonder if women and children should be evacuated first?

[lesley33]

I have been reading about the recent sinking of the Italian cruise ship and one thing that struck me was the passengers complaining that womena nd children weren't evacuated first. Now many would agree that children should be evacuated first. But should women be evacuated before men?

If I was on a sinking ship I would want to be evacuated early on. But really AIBU to think there is no real reason why I should be evacuated ahead of a male passenger?

Lets just say DH is over 6 foot tall rugby player . He could physically stop most "elbowing OAPs" and has to restrain people ocassionally on his job.

I know foglike, that is appalling, I wanted to emphasise importance of leadership.

I've got a vision of him sat in a lifeboat with a loudspeaker coughing up orders.
Or pulling the bonnet which matched his dress further over his face.

foglike- actually the women and children thing originated from a sinking of a troopship HMS Birkenhead. So full of young men.

In terms of what one can do about it, as someone's said up-thread, the really important thing to do on any boat or plane, is know where the safety exists are and plan your route, when you first get on.

I heard a fascinating radio programme a while ago about how people react in emergencies. Two factors were important, planning ahead and, unpredictable inbuilt brain response. About 10% of people naturally 'slow down' (really go into hyperdrive, so everything seems to be happening slowly as it's so intense) and can take in what's going on, make decisions and act on them. Most people panic and freeze. Planning might help, so your emergency response triggers something useful but I'm not sure you can predict what sort of panicker you are.

I usually travel on the outside deck on ferries, or very near an exit, primarily because of travel sickness but also with the idea (no doubt a fantasy, with cold sea and rapidly sinking boat dragging everyone down) that I could always swim.

DH or the escaping captain ?

I think panic is important to stop. The post earlier highlighted how much the person in the scenario saw what was going on and remembered it. If it had been worse (boat actually evacuated etc) the elbowing etc may actually have started to lead to true panic and hysteria. This is why leadership is essential.

As for DH think he would help organise (if needed) and give up place. Though personally he is far more use alive than me.

But they were civilians mainly winibella but thanks for the history I didn't know that and it explodes the myth that it happened first on the titanic.

If a warship was sinking now would it be every man/woman for him/herself was really my clumsy attempt at making a point.

Yes, and the 1st officer fell into the boat as well

IUseTooMuch- in the situation where you would have to decide who deserves to live (as opposed to who is least likely to survive)- what would you do if you had to pluck out of water either an 80 yo woman or a 5 yo child? It's not that the old woman's life is worthless, but she has lived her life. The child hasn't got that chance yet. And yes, yes, of course it's possible she's caring for a disabled adult child etc etc, but in situations like this you don't have time to assess everyone's lifestory. It is much more likely that at 80 she is not caring for anyone, let's be honest. The possibilty is very remote. There's no ambiguity regarding child's situation.

No, they were mainly troops, not civilians.

I'm not sure, I think the evacuation would be much better organized aboard the warship. Chivarly-I wonder. Probably more chances of that aboard the warship than cruise liner, I would think.

Maybe due to leadership (used to obeying ) less likely to panic as been in dangerous positions before.....

You're saying that there were women troops on the warship?

Would there be any regulation/code putting women sailors before male sailors on a warship today?

Considering it's very unlikely that children would be aboard a modern warship and the women would be equal to men on board.

warship might be being used to evacuate civilians.

Of course it would in rare events which is why I said unlikely.

I would suggest that if a warship got into trouble sex wouldn't come into it.

The full compliment of crew would be a homogeneous mass working towards one end which would be the ships evacuation and not one life would be more important than another.

Winnybella, I'm not that strong so would probably have more success with a child. Depending on the size of both.

But I don't think I could say tbh, it would depend on all sorts of things, like who was closest, who was struggling the most, whether one had. A relative on my boat screaming for them.

I think I would always want to save as many as possible if I were in a position to be able to do so, but only after my own family were safe.

It would also be about saving the person that was the safest thing for me to do. If the 80yo was in the direction of the shore and I could see it, and the child was in the opposite direction where the water was rougher, I would be heading towards the safest place for the people already on the boat. That would probably include my family, and they would always be my priority. That is the only ting I think I can be certain of.

And what do we think of the Captain who apparantly left the ship early having 'accidentally slipped' into a lifeboat?

Untl; we know it's true....absolutely nothing.

If what is being suggested is true, then I think he is scum. I listened to that recording of his conversation with the coastguard (or whoever it was) open mouthed with shock.

We do know he left the ship in a lifeboat, though - it was in the recording.

foglike-yes, women civilians, misunderstood your post

His "accidental" slipping into a lifeboat sounds like the men who turn up at A&E having "accidentally" sat on the tube of a vaccuum cleaner!

Am probably far too late to this thread but thought I'd post this anyway
I posted this on the other thread about this earlier in the week.

My grandmother was a nurse on a navy boat in the Indian ocean during WW2 when it got torpedoed. The sailors gave priority to the female nurses. One of the older nurses gave up her place of a lifeboat to my grandmother as she was young and had just got married. The people who got on the lifeboats were the only survivors. My dad was born 10 months later and named after the nurse who had sacrificed herself to save my grandmother.

Unfortunately it doesn't have a happy ending because my grandmother died 4 years later from a sudden massive brain haemorrage from a head injury she had sustained in the attack.

If you are in an emergency situation, the noisiest people are the ones most likely to survive, but also the ones needing least help. The quiet ones need to be triaged into no hopers and possibilities. But if you only have room for one person on a lifeboat, technically speaking the stroppiest person is the best bet, even if you do hate the look of them and feel sorry for the unconscious little girl in a pink frilly dress nearby.

What a prick that Captain is. I tripped and fell into the lifeboat.

How very fucking convenient. And then refused to go back on board.

Oh nulgirl, that brought tears to my eyes. How brave would you have to be to do that, knowing you were probably going to die?

I read recently that in an emergency, most people panic. Not screaming and running around panic, they just go into a trance. Their brain cannot compute what is going on, so they wander around. I read a story about a woman in the Twin Towers who stood in her office for 5 minutes trying to decide what to take. She only moved when her colleague screamed at her to do so.

They say the best thing to do is to always be aware of how to escape. Look for emergency exits, be aware of the emergency procedures. A lot of people have survived disasters by knowing what to do and where to go, so when your brain goes into that trance-like state you can function on autopilot.