To wonder if women and children should be evacuated first?

[lesley33]

I have been reading about the recent sinking of the Italian cruise ship and one thing that struck me was the passengers complaining that womena nd children weren't evacuated first. Now many would agree that children should be evacuated first. But should women be evacuated before men?

If I was on a sinking ship I would want to be evacuated early on. But really AIBU to think there is no real reason why I should be evacuated ahead of a male passenger?

And bar obvious disabilities how do you know if someone really has SN at lifeboat stations? Also not all SN will mean you will find it harder to survive. Adult with ADHD as likely as to be able to swim as other adults.

I think I'd give ds to her and stay on board myself. Let her take him? Lie if we had to.

I would do the same olympia

I'm going to get blasted for saying this but i think it should be women and children first.

I imagine that historically it originated from most women in the past being also mothers. Shoot me but for the vast majority of DCs losing their mother would have worse repercussions than losing theor father (this comes from someone who was a daddy' girl btw). If children go first, and i think everyone is in agrrment that they should then their mothers should go with them.

If you are talking about a group of childless adults then personally I wouldnt discriminate.

IIRC when the Estonia sank it was a free for all and men were disproportionate in theior survival rates.

I think it should be "weak and vulnerable first", that should cover young children and adults with appropriate needs. Children 14 yo and above are normally strong and able to cope.

Gosh, how does one decide!

heard this on Jeremy Vine

no, children should go first, after that, its everyone for themselves

I think there are a lot of elderly people who would refuse to go ahead of younger people if it was a case of only those in the lifeboats surviving (as opposed to the stronger ones being able to swim ashore).

and of course you don't always know what type of a situation it is.

"IIRC when the Estonia sank it was a free for all"

What do you mean "free for all"? Did strong men push their way into the lifeboats or was it that no-one made it into the lifeboats? Whichever was the scenario, I am not surprised more men survived, but under the first there would be even more men surviving.

but if you say elderly first, then you come to the question they dont have much time left, surely a younger fitter person would benefit more

I think in that kind of situation there's not really the time to establish who is with whom, what their fitness level, parental status, age, etc etc is. You just go by instinct, and the instinct is children first and as many people who belong to the children as possible. So basically, women and children first.

It's a horrible way to go though!

I think it's just a biological response...for the species to continue you need more women than men, don't you?

FWIW I'm a far stronger swimmer than DH, so...

"but if you say elderly first, then you come to the question they dont have much time left, surely a younger fitter person would benefit more"

Hmm, I do not think I would be looking at it from the age point of view.

Wikipedia on the Estonia:
' By the time the rescue helicopters arrived, around a third of the people who escaped from the Estonia had died of hypothermia.[1] The survivors of the shipwreck were mostly young, of strong physical composition, and male. Seven people over 55 years of age survived. There were no survivors under age 12. About 750 people were inside the ship when it sank.[JAIC 2] The commission estimate up to 310 passengers reached the outer decks and 160 climbed into the liferafts or lifeboats essential for survival. Most of the 757 missing persons are believed to be inside the ship. '

v sad. what a lot of people.

If we had to swim for it I'd want DH to take DD2 and me take DD1.
Both my DDs are fish, but the 10y might still panic and DH is stronger than me and brought up swimming in rough sea.
No way should DD1 (14) take priority over a less confident swimmer just because she's younger.
Also women and girls survive better in cold water. Small boys fare particularly badly.

When they're evacuating a boat it's about order and speed. Women and child first is relatively simple. In an emergency situation faffing about equality/ability/primary care giver/better swimmer/whatever will result in greater loss of life.

Although from what I can gather, most at sea emergencies quickly disintegrate into every man for himself. (Most of the survivors of the Estonia were young strong men.)

Thanks Elder. Yeah, I now remember. Estonia was sinking v late at night and people drowned in the lower decks unable to ascend the decks with lifeboats.
I do not think it was "free for all" though. Those able to escape did so not because they jumped over others (from wha tI read) but because they were stronger and fitter and able to fight the flooding waters and survive in 10c. No children survived.

Some of the survivors of the Italian sinking said that it was very person for themselves, with people shoving disabled peple out of the way and fights breaking out as people tried to get to safety first.

Without a very string ingrained code of some kind or extremely firm authority from well briefed crew, I would think this would always happen in a life or death situation.

In the Titanic, 3 male passengers who got into lifeboats ahead of children and women were shot by a crew member and pulled out.

No doubt, the captain/crew factor is very important, but do not underestimate the power of 4,000+ crowd. In an emergency situation, the instinct takes over and unless people have very powerful deeply ingrained sense of what is the "right" thing to do, it will become "every man for himself".

lesley Titanic was sinking over a period of time when relatively organized evacuation was still possible. It is not always the case.

Interesting, but very disturbing thread.
My conclusion - I think "children" or "women and children" is probably the right call to make the evacuation more streamlined. I would probably have to put my dc in the boat, but stay with my paraplegic dh (also with cognitive disabilities), because leaving him on a sinking ship would be a certain death.

Even better - never to set my foot on one.

how about adults who dont have any children with them

does the woman take priority over the man?

lesley33 I was giving this great consideration earlier today...have a family link to, erm, sea going vessels (No, my RL surname is NOT Onassis)

Couldn't/wouldn't leave my DH in those circumstances, BUT neither would I make our DCs 'orphans'...he'd get my place in the life boat...imagines scenario...no, you go, NO YOU, NO YOU...

Due to sensitivity towards the families of the victims of this accident I'll refrain from telling a funny RL story regarding a routine safety drill onboard a ship. Some other time maybe.

My thoughts are with the relatives of those who died.

Isn't it "women with children"? So you don't have a 2 year old on their own.