to wonder if adults should automatically win over children

[noblegiraffe]

My DS is nearly 2 and a half and has developed a very bossy streak. Part of this bossy streak means that if he is watching Thomas and DH and I are talking, he will turn to us and say 'No, stop talking, watching Thomas'.

Now, it drives me mad if I'm trying to watch TV and people are talking. To say 'Tough, Mummy and Daddy are talking' just feels wrong as his complaint is reasonable and we could be quieter. But then I don't want him becoming a little dictator with us bending to his every whim and tiptoeing around him.

What would you do?

"So if you are watching a music programme or a film you really want to see, the right of your teens to have an argument in that room at that very time should trump that"

Not what I mean at all. My teen and preteen know that interrupting for good cause will get my attention, whatever else is going on - because it may indeed be important (and it can be when the most interesting stuff comes up). They also know that being tiresome and making unnecessary noise is not on, because the adults are in charge and it is not allowed. They are learning the difference between sensible and counterproductive ways to interact. And they didn't learn that by being allowed to boss an adult around as a toddler. I have been training them about this since they were tiny. It's still work in progress, though.

I think it's perfectly normal to leave him in peace to watch tv. Just as I expect other family members to be respectful of me watching TV.

It's not either or. You could speak a little more quietly when he is watching a program he loves. But you could also make it clear you expect politeness when he speaks to you. Children aren't the enemy, neither are they wild animals to be tamed into submission. It's perfectly possible to raise pleasant, good-natured children without building some sort of family heirarchy with kids at the bottom.

"neither are they wild animals to be tamed into submission"

Ha! Just remembered DS2 Perhaps the above statement isn't always true. I will amend it to "Under normal circumstances they aren't wild animals to be tamed into submission" ...

So true Ormiran.

I think it would be very ungracious of parents to deliberately continue talking over something that a child is trying to listen to.

I guess for me it comes down to the adults in the family being aware that there are X people in the household all of whom need consideration so that any one individual cannot always put their desires above those of others. Sometimes, they can but not as a general rule. Children can't/don't understand this when they are young. That is not the same thing as daddy getting the comfy chair or hogging the remote control just because he's a grown up

IRL I have witnessed 3 familes go down this route of allowing young children equal say in how the family works. And, endless hours spent in negotiating and discussing...4 year olds allowed to decide on own bedtime, 7 year olds allowed to decide which family car to buy etc.

That is very different to what is being discussed here.
It's not about the right of the child to decide which programmes to watch but the right of the child to actually hear a programme she has been allowed to watch.

OrmIrian, indeed, at our house we have rules about time spent watching programmes, for example, so that everyone can watch their favourite shows for some time and that it is not allowed to hog the computer and watch TV at the same time. DS is very strict with that. :)

DS didn't decide on the rules, we did, as parents but the rules were decided to be fair to all.
We explained the reasons for the rules, so that they are not felt to be arbitrary.

Children must be allowed to learn how to make decisions, otherwise as grown ups they won't know how to do them.

LeQueen,
as intelligent adults, we should be able to strike the right(ish) balance.

It's not easy, but I don't agree neither with giving children free rein nor with simply imposing my will on them, and I think that both extreme camps are just asking for trouble.

My DS is not perfect, he can be very responsible and actually quite respectful of other people's rights and of my authority.

It's not about winning or losing, imo.

I'd take this as a good opportunity to teach my child about respecting other people, by respecting him, and also about asking people nicely and politely. A child can make reasonable requests within their own home without the risk of them becoming little dictators in the home.

It's about mutual respect. I am in charge in my house, along with DP, but DS and any other children who come here have a right to be respected and be able to politely voice requests or needs.

If DS were watching something and we were having a conversation and we absolutely couldn't have it in another room I would suggest he gets his headphones if he asked us to be quieter. Possibly not the solution for a 2 year old but fine for my 8 yr old. Then I'd assume that next time he wanted to watch something without background noise he would get his headphones himself, without having to 'seem' to be being rude.

Agree with Orm.

I would say "Oh I'm sorry my little cherub, was mummy and daddy talking spoiling your tv programme....I do apologise. Tell you what? Why don't daddy and I take our discussion elsewhere, and meanwhile you can decide what daddy spends his wages on this month. The Argos catalogue is right over there! Here's the remote control!"

I don't think kids should rule the roost but why let him watch tv if you are going to talk over it? I am firm with my kids but fair and perhaps it would be better to start teaching him a more polite way to express himself but also being a bit more considerate yourselves.

I don't allow my DC to be rude and they don't get their own way all the time but it is annoying when someone taks over a TV programme you really want to watch so he is not really being bratty, just doesn't yet have the social skills to ask nicely

I have a pal that was 20 minutes late meeting me in a local cafe because her 2 year old wouldn't put her coat on.

It's a slippery slope I tell you.....

Totally agree with LeQueen

Of course adults should always "win", no question about it. Even if he says please and all the rest of it- good manners shouldn't be rewarded by a parent having to make a sacrifice.

The reasoning is that they have earnt this choice, and children can't have yet. It's not about the money or the quality of the activity. It's a vital learning point for the kid. If I'd said something like that to my mum, she'd have switched the TV off.

'No, stop talking, watching Thomas'.

God if I'd spoken to my mum like that at 2.5, I'd have been wearing the Thomas the Tank DVD internally if such high falutin' things as DVDs had existed in the early 80s

What's also a slippery slope is taking for granted how badly someone wants to do something. It's TV, everyone thinks that they're so looking forward to it, and then, while you're watching....how much excitement do you actually feel? It's very like an addiction in that way.

I think it would be quite a natural thing for a 2 year old to say, he is just stating the obvious.

I would never think that adults should "win" all the time. Family life isn't about winners and losers.

My 2 DDs are 21 and 18 LeQueen so there has been plenty of time for them develop reason and logic. They have done so beautifully and are lovely young adults that any parent would be proud of.

But in our home neither DH or I would ever think we had to win. It was about the circumstances of the situation.