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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Was I unreasonable not to say or do something

49 replies

Sonotwonderwoman · 15/01/2012 17:02

We've just got in from the zoo, where we have just witnessed a horrible scene.
A couple with two DDs (I am making huge assumptions there, but they did appear to be a family) were in the gift store, and the girls were being allowed to choose a toy. When one girl didn't choose a toy fast enough, the man had a complete melt-down. He was shouting at the girl, dragging her round, aggressively in her face shouting, shaking her. It went on for over fifteen minutes, and the whole shop was watching.
The girl had started out whinging, but ended up hysterically crying. At one point he was pushing the women around too. This was not just someone getting cross with a child on a day out He was so aggressive it was very scary.. Pushing past other shoppers too.
And the thing is no-one did anything, we all just watched. I rationalised it to myself that if I said anything I would make it worse, but I also wonder if I was just being a coward.
So sad for the girls and the mother:(
Could I have done anything?

OP posts:
Kayano · 15/01/2012 17:04

I would have said something Sad

yellowraincoat · 15/01/2012 17:04

Sadly, in this situation I don't think there's much you can do. If you saw it going on and you knew the person and their name and address, of course you can report them to social services - but when you have no idea who they are? It's hard to know what to do. Even if you did say something, it's quite unlikely that he's going to stop, say "you know what, you're right" and apologise and never do it again.

Sad situation.

30SecondsToMarsBars · 15/01/2012 17:07

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

hellhasnofury · 15/01/2012 17:08

You could've tried but I suspect he wouldn't have modified his behaviour. It might've made things even worse if someone had intervened.

yellowraincoat · 15/01/2012 17:10

On the other hand, if he's like this all the time, maybe the children would have appreciated at least knowing that not everyone thinks acting like this is ok.

My mum used to lose her temper at me all the time and no one ever stepped in. Maybe if they had, her behaviour wouldn't have improved, but it might have made me feel less alone.

YellowDinosaur · 15/01/2012 17:14

I would have been worried about intervening of I'd been there on my own with the boys as i'm very small. Might be worth calling the police to describe the incident since its possible the shop had cctv?

The other thing I might have thought of doing is to record it on my phone

fuzzpig · 15/01/2012 17:16

What 30STMB said.

Somebody like that will not change because of some stranger telling him to. Sadly :(

troisgarcons · 15/01/2012 17:19

He was shouting at the girl, dragging her round, aggressively in her face shouting, shaking her. It went on for over fifteen minutes, and the whole shop was watching.

age of children?

What would you have said?

at what point between min 1 and min 15 would you have intervened?

When he dragged her?

When he shouted?

and you watched for 15 mins?

Original poster
Sonotwonderwoman · 15/01/2012 18:12

troisgarcons girls were about 7 and 9 I'd say. I don't know what I would have said, or when. That's why I'm asking. What should I have done?

Should I have spoken to him about it? Phoned police? Asked shop manager to intervene? I didn't think about filming it on my phone.

OP posts:
OriginalJamie · 15/01/2012 18:19

I would have said something, or done something if I felt personally threatened. I do know how hard it feels, but my own view is that if you don't step in then you are condoning it.

I think that what I would have done is go up very quietly and say something along the lines of - "I think you are scaring your children". If he kicked off at me, I'd scarper and call the police.

OriginalJamie · 15/01/2012 18:21

I don't think the aim is to stop them in the long term, the aim is to stop them right then, and to show the children that they have some support.

hairytaleofnewyork · 15/01/2012 18:27

Actually, from what you have described I'd have gone out and phoned 999 and informed the police that I'd witnessed a very serious assault on a child and asked them tottend as an emergency.

perplexedpirate · 15/01/2012 18:28

I was at a museum with DS, dh, and in-laws a while ago and we saw something like this between a man and his DS, who was probably about 9.
He wasn't violent but was really humiliating him over a completely innocent and utterly inconsequential mistake.
We didn't do anything and I felt terrible afterwards too. I was very afraid of making things worse for the boy though. :(

ArtVandelay · 15/01/2012 18:29

15 Mins is a long time to watch someone terrorise a child. Are you sure it didn't just feel that long?

If it was really 15 minutes then I'm sorry but you or someone should have at least got the shop staff to call security or police.

I bet you're in bits though... how appalling. Are your DCs okay? Weren't they scared? I'm surprised you didn't take them away from the scenes.

LaurieFairyCake · 15/01/2012 18:30

I'd have called the police loudly in the shop.

I'd then have hoped he had reacted and hit me so that I could prosecute the fucker.

MollyMurphy · 15/01/2012 18:37

Being a loud mouth, I probably would have also made a point of calling to the shop keeper to get ahold of security. However, I think it can be hard when your in the moment feeling shocked and uncertain of what to do so I understand why you didn't say anything. Horrid situation. I don't know what authorities could do now, but if security had a chance to approach them and get their names they could have in turn alerted SS who could screen the matter, have a chat with the parents and give mom some resource information.

lifechanger · 15/01/2012 18:40

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

hugglymugly · 15/01/2012 19:49

It should have been the shop staff who did something because it was their "patch" and they have responsibility for the safety of customers.

I'd guess that along with the "is this real?" thinking that influenced you and others there was also the "I don't have authority here" thinking. It is difficult to know what to do when you're on somebody else's territory.

I'd suggest that you write out as much detail as you can, including descriptions, date/time of the abuse, and take it along to your local police station, stating that you have concerns about the children's welfare, and leave it to them to deal with. It may well be that the staff have reported it and, especially in the absence of CCTV, your report could be very helpful to the police. Don't be put off if the police officer you talk to doesn't immediately react - cases of potential child abuse is a specialised aspect of policing.

Boomerwang · 15/01/2012 21:22

It's always when it's over that you think of things you could have done. The shock takes your mind away, briefly.

I'd like to think that if I saw any part which looked as though he was inches away from becoming physically violent that I would step in and do or say something, but I'm really unsure that I would have my wits about me at the time.

It would play on my mind for a very long time, though. And I would feel guilty that I hadn't done something, or foolish that I had done something ineffective.

bobbledunk · 15/01/2012 21:25

Is this real? An entire shop full of wimps stood by for 15 minutes watching a young child being terrorised? And did NOTHING!Confused

Really? Everybody was presumably to scared to intervene (pussies), the least you could have done is called the police, you could even have hidden like a coward while doing itHmm.

I'm also wondering why were there no security guards in the vicinity? Or was it just that nobody bothered calling them eitherAngry

If this is true, you should be ashamed you did nothing. As should your fellow wimps.

That poor childSad

As for a man feeling confident to behave like that in public, what a pathetic society that indulges himAngry.

CrabbyBigbottom · 15/01/2012 21:42

Sorry but there's no way on earth that I would have stood by and watched that happen. I know people are scared of consequences, but what could he have done in a public space in front of so many people? I'm not saying it's the wisest thing to do to intervene, but my gut instinct is why the fuck wouldn't you???

mrsmaltesers · 15/01/2012 21:46

I saw a brute of a man screaming at his son, It was years ago. The son was being dragged alongthe ground, no one did anything, me incouded. This thread is unfortunately very interesting, and if i saw similar happening again i would take the advice from here and phone the police immediately, and discretely.

Hope you are okay. Such an awful thing to witness.

LordOfTheFlies · 15/01/2012 21:55

I witnessed an incident last year- but it was between a man and a woman in front of 2 small children.

I didn't say anything because iI thought (rightly or wrongly) she was giving as good as she got.
Sadly the children -about 3 &4 - just stood there ,like it was an every day occurance.
I did think , if there was another man there (it was outside a bank) he might have intervened.

The only time I have intervened is when my own children were witness to swearing. (I actually said "Do you eat with that foul mouth"? Cringe)

yellowraincoat · 15/01/2012 22:06

It's not about being scared of consequences, Crabby. I couldn't give a fuck if someone lamps me or whatever if it meant the child was going to get help. But realistically I am pretty sure that nothing I said would actually help the child.

boohoobabywho · 15/01/2012 22:33

its always difficult to predict how you would act in a certain situation.

for example i am a compelte wimp. A few years back a woman had her bag snatched from Euston Station, she chased the robbers and was run over and killed ( either by a taxi or her own car - i cant remember) but what i do remember is having a conversation with my dad saying that there is nothing in your handbag worth dying for, and that she should have just let them take the bag.

My dad got really upset with me for being such a wimp and said - no dont let the thugs win, that was her bag she has a right to protect her stuff.

Fast forward about two months. ( this is the shortened version) I went into a bank lobby service at 9 at night and a bloke pulled a gun on me and said ' give me two hundred pounds and your cashcard or i will shoot you'

I said ' well you are just going to have to shoot me then, becuase i dont have it'
(i had £190 in my pocket that i was going to pay in - for bills for the Monday)

he said... ' i'm really going to shoot you'
I said ..... 'go on then'

he pulled the gun up to my face and then down to my knees and said... ' i'm going to shoot you in the leg'
I said... ' go on then' but the thought that when through my mind was... mind me boots then, they were forty quid.

He pulled up the gun to shoot me in the leg but was too close, as he took a step back to make space, i stepped into the space, which meant i could hit the door release button and was out of there like sh@t of a shovel.

there was also a kid and a dog in there. had he threatened to shoot the kid, i'd have give him the money. had he threatened to shoot the dog... he'd have got the money.

EVERYONE i knew was astounded that i reacted like this... especially me.

so OP in your case, speak with your boys, explain why what that man did was wrong, in a kind and caring way. ANYTHING you would have done would have impacted on your boys and you did what you did at the time. Please dont beat yourself up about it. People act differently in stressful situations.

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