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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

Was I unreasonable not to say or do something

49 replies

Sonotwonderwoman · 15/01/2012 17:02

We've just got in from the zoo, where we have just witnessed a horrible scene.
A couple with two DDs (I am making huge assumptions there, but they did appear to be a family) were in the gift store, and the girls were being allowed to choose a toy. When one girl didn't choose a toy fast enough, the man had a complete melt-down. He was shouting at the girl, dragging her round, aggressively in her face shouting, shaking her. It went on for over fifteen minutes, and the whole shop was watching.
The girl had started out whinging, but ended up hysterically crying. At one point he was pushing the women around too. This was not just someone getting cross with a child on a day out He was so aggressive it was very scary.. Pushing past other shoppers too.
And the thing is no-one did anything, we all just watched. I rationalised it to myself that if I said anything I would make it worse, but I also wonder if I was just being a coward.
So sad for the girls and the mother:(
Could I have done anything?

OP posts:

yellowraincoat · 15/01/2012 23:23

Jesus Christ, boohoo! That's terrifying! How did you feel afterwards? Were you scared in the aftermath?

It is weird, isn't it? You assume you'd react one way and you react another.

boohoobabywho · 15/01/2012 23:27

the aftermath... i locked myself in the car and cried till the windows steamed up. the kid knocked on the window and asked for a lift to the police station.... police were a nightmare.

Oh and statistics wise... because i didnt give him any money, and because he didnt threaten to kill me, there was no crime! WTAF?

RevoltingPeasant · 15/01/2012 23:30

He sounds a bit like my dad, the shaking part aside

A few years I saw a man in a shop hissing at his wife because she'd picked up the wrong kind of rice or something, 'You idiot, incompetent idiot' in this really venemous way.

IME a lot of people who lose it with their family are actually quite sensitive to appearances/ outside interference and he might have felt quite shamed if you'd said something. But probably would've taken it out on them more later on the grounds that they'd embarrassed him.

Not sure what you should have done. Was the shaking very severe?

yellowraincoat · 15/01/2012 23:31

God, boohoo. That's awful.

RevoltingPeasant · 15/01/2012 23:32

When I say 'he' I don't mean the man who threatened you boohoo

You are awesome.

exoticfruits · 15/01/2012 23:39

Gosh boohoo-I am in awe too!

It is a very difficult one OP. I don't think it would help the DC -they would probably get the blame for you intervening. I am always a bit of a wimp. Yesterday I was in a coffee shop where the man behind me was terribly rude to the girl serving and the woman behind him told him that he was being rude and it wasn't necessary. I wished I had the guts.
It makes you wonder what he was like at home if he was prepared to be like that in public.

morecoffeepleaseholdthecake · 15/01/2012 23:50

This is a difficult situation op.I would say that if you or another customer had co.fronted him it would have made things much worse for the woman and dc when they got home. I would suggest a call to the police would be the best thing to do if you see something like this.if you are worried about the safety of yourself and your dc ni doing this,leave the shop and make the call anonymously out of sight/earshot of this man. I expect those children and woman were desperately wanting someone to do something. :(

exoticfruits · 15/01/2012 23:55

Unfortunately, if you don't have names and addresses a call to anyone is going to be fairly hopeless.

EdithWeston · 15/01/2012 23:59

If you were their with your DC, and in that state of shock when you can't quite believe what you are seeing, I think it would be unwise to intervene directly - it won't achieve anything, and may escalate the situation.

But that doesn't mean there is nothing that can be done: with the benefit of hindsight, the thing that occurs to me is that you could have marched up to the shop staff to ask them to intervene or call security immediately.

And then shepherd your own children out if the shop straight away so they see no more of it. One he is removed, and especially if the police were also called, you can offer yourself as a witness.

exoticfruits · 16/01/2012 00:06

Unfortunately the man isn't going to meekly wait for the police-he is going to use some choice language and march his family off and out.

ThePathanKhansWitch · 16/01/2012 00:29

A horrible woman catches the bus most mornings with two adorable twin boys.
They do the usual thing kids do at bus stops, hopping, skipping general marlarky.

The woman is vile to them, this had gone on for a while(the stop is right outside my work window). One morning i heard her say "if you two fuckers don't stop, i'll beat the shit out of you".

I just lost it, marched out and said "if you go near those children, i'll rip your arm off and beat you up and down this fucking road with it, you big bully"[shame], not my finest moment, i also threatened to phone the police.

I don't think i did the "best" thing or rather i didn't handle it well. I know i must have upset her children, but i'd listened to her talking to her children like this for months.But i am glad i did something, she is as quiet as a mouse and much nicer to them now although i do shake a bit when i see her in case she beats me up so maybe something sunk in that day.

Ilovejellysweets · 16/01/2012 03:23

You could call the police. They could contact the shop and look at CCTV footage. They could also trace them by CCTV and vehicle reg if they had a car or distribute to social services. If he does that in public then what does he do behind closed doors! I would have been v upset for the family

Ilovejellysweets · 16/01/2012 03:28

mockingjay · 16/01/2012 05:01

While it is highly unlikely that intervening would change the man's behaviour - and would possibly even make it worse - I would say something if I possibly could.

That way the children involved will realise that this is not normal behaviour.

Ozziegirly · 16/01/2012 05:51

DH and I were at the local swings with our DS recently and there was a dad with a 4 yo and possibly about 7 yo girls. The girls were playing really nicely, and then suddenly I heard the dad calling the younger girl over. It transpired she had done a poo in her knickers.

The dad proceeded to strip her totally naked, put her over his knee and wipe her bottom before putting on a new outfit, all the while calling her a "dirty girl" who "should know better". This park is in full view of the road. It was all quite quick and they left immediately - the dad loudly announcing "We have to go home as Jasmine has shit herself again".

Lovely.

I know it must be frustrating when toiletting issues go on and on, but Christ, if I ever did that to my son I think he would deserve a much better mother.

Boomerwang · 16/01/2012 11:36

Sorry to go back on the thread but... boohoo how is being threatened with a firearm not a crime???

loopylou6 · 16/01/2012 11:49

You could still call the police, they could check if he paid by card and trace his details that way, or as another poster said, check cctv

Original poster

Sonotwonderwoman · 17/01/2012 12:53

I just thought I would say thank you for your replies.
I have phoned our local police who are going to make enquiries with the zoo, ask about CCTV etc. They also said they would be talking to social services, and that they would call back with an update or for further information if they need it.
I really wish I had done it at the time, but you can't change the past. I do know that I will certainly act differently if ever confronted with the same situation again. I only hope that there is enough informtation for the police to be able to track them down as I cannot stop thinking about those poor girls.
I am not normally a person to walk away from a difficult situation, and I've been thinking about it a lot since. I really don't think that confronting him would have made the situation any better... He would just have gotten angrier, left, and taken it out on the girls. What I should have done is spoken to the shop staff and asked them to call security, and I should have called the police, that would hopefully have stopped the incident while it was happening, and would mean any abuse could be investigated.
Thankfully my DS1 was elsewhere in the zoo with my DB, and DS2 is too young to have picked up on what was going on.

OP posts:

exoticfruits · 17/01/2012 16:07

I think that you did the right thing. We tend to be so shocked at the time that we don't know what to do for the best.

loopylou6 · 17/01/2012 16:26

Well done. I think you've done the right thing.

please update as and when.

Vicky2011 · 17/01/2012 20:37

You have done the right thing sonot

And boohoo please can you share with us which police force thinks being threatened at gun point isn't a crime?? That is beyond shocking. Presumably there would be CCTV too given where the hold up took place.

GirlWithPointyShoes · 17/01/2012 20:52

The same thing entered my mind Laurie, DP said it was an odd thing to think.

muminthecity · 17/01/2012 20:53

I have intervened in a similar situation, though I'm not sure how much difference it made

I was on a bus in central London and a man and woman got on with a little girl of about 5. The girl was messing about but not doing anything really naughty. The man (her dad I presume) shouted at her again and again. I could see he was getting more and more angry, but I said nothing. The girl walked a little way up the stairs (it was a double decker), the bus jerked and she fell, hitting her head on the way. She started to cry and her dad picked her up and slapped her over and over again, so I got up and told him to stop, said he was going too far, she's just a child etc etc. He did stop but turned his aggression toward me, got right up in my face and was shouting at me. I stood up and told him that he might be able to intimidate and bully a small child but he certainly wasn't going to do the same to me. He got off at the next stop with his wife, who hadn't said a word throughout the whole thing.

There were loads of other people on the bus who sat and watched without saying a word, the fuckers. I doubt if anything I said had any effect on his behaviour but it makes me feel better to think that at least that little girl knew someone was on her side that day.

GirlWithPointyShoes · 17/01/2012 20:56

Oh and yes Sonot, it was a horrible situation to be thrust into and I don't think anybody can prepare themselves for witnessing child abuse. Hindsight is great and you have done a great thing that could possible improve the lives of two children.

Well done :).

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