to wonder if it is a myth that children lose the ability to suck?

[AtYourCervix]

don't get it.

surely adults can suck thumbs, or lollies.

it is always a comback in extended breastfeeding discussions that children eventually are unable to attatch and suck at a breast.

where is the evidence that a mouth changes shape so radically?

is this 'losing the ability to suck' a myth perpetuated by those who find breastfeeding intimidating and/or wrong beyond infacy?

It's a total myth, ask DD2

I have only ever heard it in relation to ... Like 7 year olds

And dons suit 7 year olds bf is a bit why? Why?!

I think suckling to draw milk is different to just sucking

(and I suck my thumb in times of stress and exhaustion )

I don't know either. What I do know is that within about 5 weeks of DS1 stopping breastfeeding, at 2.2, he'd forgotten how to latch on and suckle. I don't know why that makes me sad - we'd stopped more or less by common accord, I was pregnant with DS2 and DS1 was happy with a bottle or cup - but it did. He asked a few weeks after his last feed if he could have some milk, I offered my breast to him - and he made a funny face like a chimp and sort of mouthed the nipple, then broke down in giggles. It happened on several occasions. He'd forgotten what to do.

But they don't 'suck' if they are bf if I recall what I read correctly. The action for bf and bottle feeding is different. I think it is more if they get into the habit of sucking on a formula bottle, that they lose the other way.

i don't think it is different. a suck is a suck.

Does anyone remember the documentary about Layla the lactating milkmaid?

If you saw that, you will know grown men can suckle.

or maybe some people forget how to suck.

can i do an experiment?

those who are not adult thumb/finger suckers can you please have a go and see if you can suck a thumb for a couple of minutes?

Oh, and with thumb sucking - I don't know how other people used to suck their thumbs, but I distinctly remember a sort of fluttering 'suckle' when I sucked mine as a child. In retrospect, it was very similar to what DS2 is doing right this minute.

So who knows, maybe children don't actually lose the ability but perhaps they sometimes just forget fast, once they've stopped breastfeeding? And maybe thumb suckers recall it? I doubt there's any actual research about when the 'suckling muscles' atrophy. Where would be the funding?

I too have read about grown men paying to suckle - a fetish - probably has a name.

I haven't heard it used by people anti extended bfing but the other way round. Usually someone will justify extended bfing by saying that they are letting them self wean which will happen by 7 at the latest because around then they lose the ability to suck.

No idea whether it's true but it's hard to imagine a child older than that getting into into the right position to bf because they are so big and I imagine it would be quite awkward and clumsy.

It is a different action. I don't doubt that an older child/adult can suckle at a breast and get milk out but I think that would be a learned action, when people talk about the loss of ability and biological age of weaning I think it is the loss of the reflex and the instinctive action they are talking about.

I think anyway.

AtYourCervix, a suck isn't the same as a suckle. Suckling mammals actually milk the breast/teat/udder/whatever. They are making muscles in their tongue sort of ripple down, so the movement starts at the top of the aerola or nipple tissue and moves down. I think. It's very different from just sucking, but as I say, I think I had this sort of fluttery suckling thing going when I used to suck my thumb.

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i'm a finger sucker. i do the fluttery tongue thing completely unconsciously.

i wonder if i could get dannone to fund me some extended breastfeeding research?

Lactophilia?? (milk fetish)

I thought the ability babies loose as they get older is to breathe and suck at the same time?

ATC, it's certainly worth a try!

i can breathe and suck at the same time.

maybe it's a 'most people' lose the attachment ability and some people don't thing.

although i'm not sure i'd particularly want to give a boob a go, even in the name of legitimate research.

I agree that it is usually used as an argument for extended breast feeding i.e. as long as it is physically possible to feed it is natural ergo it is fine.

My understanding was that when baby teeth are replaced by adult teeth significant changes occur to the jaw and BF is no longer physically possible.

But your thumb grows with you as you grow up. My thumb is much bigger than a nipple, whereas a child's is probably a similar size to how your nipples are when you're breastfeeding.

I still suck my thumb and do the tongue movement, I was breastfed until about 6 months, so must have just continued from there. However the breastfeeding movement is slightly different still with some movement in the chin which sort of massages/squeezes the milk ducts close to the end of the nipple, I don't move my chin at all when thumb sucking (this is weird, have never tried to work out exactly what it is that happens before...)

When we did peer support training, we were all instructed to suck our thumb in a particular session because the adult thumb:mouth ratio is pretty much exactly the same placement of a mother's nipple inside the baby's mouth, with the tip of it reaching the soft palate as a maximum. (This was to illustrate why it shouldn't hurt because the sensitive part of the nipple isn't actually touching anything) The main difference is that a nipple/breast would get wider at the base where a thumb doesn't, length-wise, it's similar.

I would imagine that the changes in the jaw shape do something to the chin movement, and also the fact that the child's mouth is getting bigger while the nipple is not, it would mean that it wouldn't be able to be drawn into the mouth far enough for the sucking to have as much effect.

Babies can breathe and suck at the same time, so they can stay latched on. That's the knack that they lose as they grow older. Adults can't do it. It's possible to learn to breathe in through your nose and out through your mouth at the same time (like when playing a digeridoo) but not to drink and breathe at the same time.

My nipples were about the size of my thumbs when I was breastfeeding!

They actually aren't that much smaller now.

I do remember using one of those machine breast pumps, and being absolutely horrified by the sight of my nipples being sucked right down the tubes. They were easily the size of my thumbs, if not bigger.