to think you don't have to be a greedy binge eater to be fat?

[entropyglitter]

A teatime thought for the day....

I am around 20 kilos over weight, which is a lot and makes me look fat.

I just calculated that, averaged over my adult life, that equates to an extra 25 calories a day. Or 1.25% of the RDA.

I imagine my poor brain just can't quite tell the difference between making me feel full and satisfied at exactly the right number of calories to be neutral and never put on weight, and 1.25% more than that and hence ending up like this.....

I'm not quite sure what 'greedy' actually is. If, by greed, you mean people who eat more than they need, well that's not greed in my opinion, and it's very easily done by almost everyone in an environment where food is plentiful and easily obtainable. If by greed you mean people who deliberately eat more than their stomach WANTS ignoring all obvious signs of fullness, then that is undoubtedly greed - but it's actually quite hard to do on a habitual basis.

The problems we have are with our bodies and minds playing tricks on us over what we think/feel we need, and that is massively exacerbated by our over-reliance on processed white carbs. Hunger, or the concept of hunger in all its forms and guises is a complicated thing.

I think it's a very rare person that eats more than they want; habitually eating more than you need is greedy IMO and does inevitably lead to weight problems. How is it not greedy?

I fell into this category for years and it is why I was often overweight.

I'm not saying that one should never eat more than one wants, life would be dull as shit if we didn't, but habitually doing so is greedy, IMO.

OP, I agree with you. Since DS was born 13 years ago I've put on 3 stone (42lb).

My MIL, who is very overweight, doesn't think it's a problem because it averages out at a 3lb weight increase per year (some years I put on nothing or lost, some years it was more) and I suppose it's not the end of the world. But it has increased my BMI to 27, so I am now overweight.

I eat a very healthy and quite a low fat diet generally (meat free, lots of vegetables/lentils, wholemeal rice and pasta), I just have a very bad habit of eating a little too much of it or treating myself to a snack I don't really need a little too often.

I'm working on it now though. I don't think I'll lose the whole 3 stone, I'm aiming for 2 by just cutting out on the snacks in the evening and not giving myself that extra spoonful of food.

It seems to be working so far.

But no, you don't need to be a huge greedy guts to find yourself overweight.

Greed has to be a conscious thing - and eating more than you actually need is very, very often NOT a conscious thing, but a reaction to physiological urges causes by erratic blood sugar levels, caused by too many processed carbs. If you eat when you knwo you are not hungry then that could be labelled greed. but who is to say exactly what hunger is? Most people who eat more than they need think they are hungry. That is the point.

i think the point made near the top about having a limit is really important.

i was a size 10 when i was 17/18, after a few years of beer, pizza and less exercise at university i was a 12. then i was a 14. when they got tight i refused to buy any bigger ones.

i was lucky to lose weight after DS was born, got down to a 12 for the first time in years. it had crept up to a 14 again by the time i got pg again though.

i am 25 weeks and huge right now. so hungry!

I hear you Slinking I need my scales... they keep me on track. Though like anything diet related its a very personal thing, all diets and tactics work, none work for all people all the time. I do know people who found scales hindered their weightloss, but they work for me.

It took me 20 years to find a lifestyle that with tweaking could make me lose weight but also (especially over Christmas where feasting on high cal food is part and parcel of the joy) if I relax it I don't gain massive amounts.

I put 2lbs on over Christmas (that's a month between weighins) which I think is brilliant as I felt like I'd been greedy! Last year I put on nearly 1stone

I know that when I eat too much of the wrong foods and don't do enough exercise I put on weight...

When I start eating sensibly and get moving it drops off....

Not rocket science!

You have to be out of touch with the relationship between what your body needs and what you want to give it. Lots of people are.

Your desire to deny 'greed' reads as an attempt to avoid responsibility for your situation. Why not take responsibility for becoming healthy and slim instead? Use the conscious, rational part of your brain to over-ride and re-train the 'poor' helpless, out of kilter part.

'I have a healthy appetite, you like to treat yourself, she is greedy'.

sausages how does that help anyone? I dont think a single person on here has indicated that they think that eating a lower daily intake of calories and doing more exercise would not solve weight problems?

We have moved on to how to facilitate that action / make it possible for those of us who find it really difficult. If you have ideas about that then I would gladly hear them.

Lottie but how do you magically know what your body needs?

I would love a little dial on my arm that says you have hit calorie balance for the day, stop eating now.

My own internal dial is broken. It says you are still hungry please eat some more when the evidence accumulated over many years tells me that in fact I have already eaten enough?

Age also makes a difference. As you get older, you simply don't need the same amount of calories, as your metabolism slows. So, you can carry on eating the extra biscuit (or a few) as you did when you were twenty, but you will pile on the weight. I had no weight issues at all til my mid=thirties and after my second child, now to lose weight (which I can do) I have to drastically reduce my diet down to a fairly minimal three sparse meals a day with no 'treats' and I might lose a pound in a week, whereas as a twenty year old, I used to eat Weetabix for a day if I felt a bit heavy and the weight fell off.

YANBU. Yes you must be eating more than you need to. But it doesn't have to be that much more. 2 chocolate biscuits a day more than you need will lead to you getting pretty fat over time.

Incidentally my DH is the other side of the line. His dial reads full when he still needs calories. He loses weight if he doesnt think about it and has to consciously try to eat more than his body is telling him he needs.

There is no particular reason you can trust your instincts on this one.....

*sausages how does that help anyone? I dont think a single person on here has indicated that they think that eating a lower daily intake of calories and doing more exercise would not solve weight problems?

We have moved on to how to facilitate that action / make it possible for those of us who find it really difficult. If you have ideas about that then I would gladly hear them.*

Oh hark at yourself! Could you be any more patronising or school ma'am ish!

Personally I think I had a perfectly valid point. Couldn't care less that it doesn't meet with your personal approval! LOL

Yanbu. I couldn't work out why I kept gaining and couldn't lose weight.
A typical day would include cereal for breakfast, sandwich for lunch, pasta for dinner. No crisps and very little in the way of sugar. probably around 1500 cals.

After speaking to a woo holistic therapist type I began to examine my diet - surely I was eating healthily, my diet was full of wheat! And wholegrain is good for you, right?

We're apes, not farm animals.

Natural diet for an ape - fruit, vegetables that don't need cooking to be digestible, occasional piece of meat when they can catch it.

NOT bloody bread pasta and potatoes. /rant

Once I started eating proper food and left the bread alone, my weight stabilised.
So you don't need to be greedy, just eating the wrong thing.

hi, other Sausages!

Entropy There's no 'magic' and expecting that there might be, so a solution will be presented to you on a plate, so to speak, could be a big part of your problem. No-one else is going to sort this out for you, you need to take responsibility, tackle it actively and persevere.

We all have different degrees of 'fullness', from 'not full but not particularly hungry', through 'just enough but feel there's space for something else later, IF I choose to have it', 'full, wouldn't want to go for a walk right now' to 'stuffed, couldn't eat another thing, verging on uncomfortable'. You need to learn to recognise which one and how often is 'right' for your body at a healthy weight and that is going to involve experiment, a bit of feeling hungry and putting up with it, and re-training your brain.

Exercise and type of food eaten have a big impact on hunger and perceptions of fullness. I'm sure you're aware of the dangers of 'up and down' sugary food and the benefits of slow-release low GI carbs, with plenty of protein and a healthy level of fat.

Exercise makes you feel hungrier afterwards, (unless it's 'high intensity' e.g. marathon training, when it actually shuts down hunger for a while but catches up with you the next day) and this is where the conscious brain comes in - you know this, so you need to act rationally and eat no more after exercising than you would if you hadn't. It's easy to overestimate the number of calories you've burned and underestimate the number in your food. Don't.

Exercise can really help regulate your cycles of appetite though, when you're doing it regularly. Also, you can't exercise when eating or feeling full and you can time it so that you exercise at a time when you'd otherwise get peckish, so avoid snacking and save yourself for a sensible meal afterwards.

My other thought is, set out a plan for yourself and stick to it but don't obsess about it. Find something else to get engrossed in and focus attention on that instead. Thinking about food all the time does not help. I concluded, in one office I worked in, that there was an inverse relatonship between talking about dieting and actually losing weight. Some support can be helpful but people who are going to do it, do it, those who aren't chat.

entropy I can totally recommend the Paul McKenna 'I can make you thin' for just that. It's about eating slowly and recognising when you're full. It's how I stopped at size 14! There is a good thread for support in the 'big/slim'whatever' bit of MN. :)

Hey other sausage

I personbally find that low carbs, higher protein works for me!

p.s. exercise is also important because you need to kick-start your metabolism (stress does the same but is not as much fun). You probably need to start with a more restrictive diet for a couple of weeks to get things moving too, then move to a sensible long-term diet for a lower-weight you.

Your idea about a couple of extra biscuits a day having added 20 kilos may be true but, weight loss doesn't usually follow such a gentle straight line. Your body has certain equilibria that it will stick at and it needs a bit of a jolt to move from one to another. Nothing too drastic, obviously.

More cheerfully, remember the 80/20 rule (though don't push it, maybe more 90/10) - what you do the vast majority of the time is what counts, the occasional meal out or other deviation is fine, so long as it really is occasional. Enjoy food, don't make yourself miserable about it.

Btw I'm no dietary adviser, just relaying info from personal knowledge and experience.

Ok here's a clear unambiguous tip- you need to get used to being hungry for at least an hour before lunch and the same at dinner. Hungry is normal, you don't need to eat straight away.

I'm overweight because I give my body more energy than I am prepared to use.

I am fat cos I am greedy. I love food too.

However, the main reason I am fat is that I drink too much wine. I then snack as my will power has diminished.

I have also lost and gained masses of weight over the years.

And now I have hit the menopause and my waist and back just expanded one day when I was driving (seriously - I felt all my fat cells popping and fizzing as they settled down into middle age)

I just hope cutting down the wine will help as I am very miserable.

It sounds like if you just bring a homemade sandwich for lunch you will cut out a lot of calories. Surely that would be the easiest change to make?