to think you don't have to be a greedy binge eater to be fat?

[entropyglitter]

A teatime thought for the day....

I am around 20 kilos over weight, which is a lot and makes me look fat.

I just calculated that, averaged over my adult life, that equates to an extra 25 calories a day. Or 1.25% of the RDA.

I imagine my poor brain just can't quite tell the difference between making me feel full and satisfied at exactly the right number of calories to be neutral and never put on weight, and 1.25% more than that and hence ending up like this.....

I think the thing about the mars bar/avocado is more true than you think, because if you ate all that sugar it would trigger an insulin release, which tells your body to lay down fat. If you ate the avocado it would have neglible effect on your insulin.

If you eat insulemic foods you will get fat.

It's not as simple as calories in/calories out.

it was a first approximation.....

I think I have personally eaten less as I have gotten older but then not had the energy to do as much exercise....and then eaten less and so on. Sad really, I used to play county badminton and now I am too embarrassed to go to a club.

entropy, it isn't will power really. It's changing habits.

Have you tried the change one thing at a time approach? Give each habit a couple of weeks to form then move onto the next one.

I used to think people who made a fuss about dairy were just, you know, fussy. BUT have been talking to a scientist who has looked into this in in great detail, and she's convinced me I was wrong. Has found major studies showing a big difference in rates of breast cancer between people who eat a Western diet including large amounts of milk, and people eating a typically Chinese diet with no dairy. My scientist friend is a world-class professor at Imperial, btw, so knows how to read data and interpret different grades of evidence. Although she's a chemical engineer, not a doctor. But I can't dismiss it with a simple 'oh, it'll be a confouding factor to do with some other difference between Chinese people and Europeans'. (Chinese/Asian people who move from countries with a largely non-dairy diet to Western countries then develop the same higher rates of cancer and the same forms of cancer as Westerners - there really does seem to be something to do with diet or lifestyle involved.)

She reckons there are two key problems with dairy. One, that farmers these days milk pregnant cows (apparently this used not to be the case), so milk has much higher levels of oestrogen. Second, that casein (milk protein) seems to be actually carcinogenic. I need to read her papers to get the full picture but keep avoiding it because I love cheese and am veggie, really quail at the thought of going vegan - that seems like a huge hassle.

edam My sister is vegetarian too, was vegan actually. Now she is eating small amounts of cheese ,as it near impossible for her to get all she needed without a small amount of dairy.

I wondered if the 6-ish pounds I have lost ,were in connection with the fact I am taking in less hormones now.

The weight is still continuing to come off, its very gradual but steady.

I think the jury's out on dairy. It can do a lot of good as well especially low fat dairy products. I hear lots of stuff about soy being carcinogenic as well. Personally, I don't really worry about either too much - I think there are much more important determinants of cancer.

3 years ago I weighed 4 stone less than I do now. I just calculated that means I overate 200 cals a day more than I should have done. Based on an average of 1800 cals a day for me to maintain my weight (I am short) that means I consumed 2000 cals a day average. I reckon that is not too far off actually. 2000 cals a day is a lot of food! I am a greedy binge eater to be honest

I would never omit a whole food group to be honest, only because I find it hard work to get the nutritions from the other food groups (that doesn't make sense does it?) what I mean is. If I omitted dairy, I'd have to up the amounts of non-dairy things to give me the calcium etc., the non-dairy things that would do this adequately for me are the things I don't much like.

I eat dairy and love it, but its very strictly monitored. 35g of cheese/375ml milk per day for example... or the equivalent over a week. In the UK I do believe we eat FAR too much dairy and wheat. I have two slices of bread per day (or cereal equivalent) and its more than enough. Looking back I'd have cereal for breakfast, a cheese sarnie for lunch, toast dairy wheat cheese... no wonder I was a) feeling shoite and b) not shifting weight. Even if the milk was semi skimmed, the cheese was feta, and the bread healthy wholemeal and even though I wasn't having massive portions.

My main food group is veg. Starchy veg fills me up instantly even though it contains the dreaded and unfairly demonised carbs, but at least 1/3 of my plate is of the non starchy leafy kind. Second is probably protein, as a meat eater that means lots of lean meats and fish, or quorn. I use a lot of spices. Limit dairy and grain. Watch carefully saturated fats and sugars...

Eating lots, steadily losing weight I've put on over 8 years very slowly and also shedding the weight I've carried with me since I was young.

I do need to tackle actual movement. I am on my feet all day with the children, we're active, but its not 'proper exercise', proper exercise is something that I find extremely dull, so I need to find something that doesn't make me want to fuck it off and eat cake, I could also do with another 4 hrs each day to do it in.

angryfeet it isn't THAT much, its about one smoothy or an extra shop bought coffee. Its not like you were eating a whole pizza over your daily allowance every day!!!

My son is fastidious with his diet, he has a Maths degree so he isn't stupid.

He goes on a low carb diet though like the AItkins, but also counts calories he always does it this way he deliberately puts on 2stone then when reaches the 2stone loses it.

He also goes to the gym four times a week.

For me counting calories is the only way to do it as you can eat what you want providing you don't go over the allowance.

And it is as simple as dont eat more calories than you burn.

Milk in my coffee is 300 calories a day, from Monday Im going with black coffee cos I can't give up caffeine. I have five sweeteners too! All at 0 calories.

I shal be living on 1300 calories a day for five months to lose 2 stone. Go me.

Im fat cos I eat too much shit, sweets, crisps and biscuits.

No I mean 2000 cals is a lot of food. Say you have scrambled egg on toast for breakfast plus a piece of fruit and some oj - 400 cals, lunch a sandwich say 400 cals again, snack of carrot sticks and houmous - 150 cals, dinner of chicken breast, jacket potato and veg - 600 cals. That really is a pretty average day for a healthy person but that is 1550 cals. 2000 has to be too much for the average person? I would have a Chinese for dinner or pizza a couple of times a week and other times would eat healthily so I reckon it balances out at 2000 a day but was way too much food.

400 in a sandwich . I checked the sandwich I had been surviving on at work (just a normal two slices of bread sandwich and the only one that was at all edible) and it had 690.

I agree with angry- I always think 2000 is a lot.

That said we all have a "simple" thing we just don't "get" mine is money. I've been known to read my balance through a slit, because I am covering my hands with my eyes. And it's my money! But I can't quite handle it. We all have something.

20 kilo = 2.2lb to the kilo - so thats 44 lbs which is 2 stone 12lb

To spread that weight without shifting a dress size you would have to be 5'10" or more.

I used to be able to move between 9'4 and 11'4 and only move from a 10 to a 12 at menstruation.

In reality the best way to control your weight is not to have scales - you just cut back for a couple of days and dont buy bigger sized clothes.

Having come out with that gem - my boobs just keep growing (nothing else does) and pre-child I've gone from a lovey pert B cup, to whoppers of FF cups - which necessitate a 16/18 across the chest. Fortunately I can tailor my clothes so I dont look like a shapeless bag of shite ... I just look like tits on a stick.

The last time I played badminton I tried to strap me norks down with two different complementary styles of sports bras. I couldnt really breath and one nork still made an escape bid and had to be wrestled into submission mid rally. Mind you I do get quite agitated when playing badminton.

I miss it....but the only club I dare go to is the staff club and they treat me like shit by assuming that girl + fat = crap at badminton.

I am also about 20kg overweight. I "realised" recently that my 7 yo DD weighs 21kg, and focussing on my excess weight as being akin to another (not tiny) person has really freaked me out. I really think focussing on the physical embodiment of my excess weight is really going to give me the motivation I have always lacked. I know what it feels like to carry her and in reality I am doing that all the time.

Fabby, why on earth does your son deliberately yoyo like that? Isn't it dangerous?

I checked the sandwich I had been surviving on at work (just a normal two slices of bread sandwich and the only one that was at all edible) and it had 690.

Finding a decent ready made lunch isn't easy. Most of the sandwiches that look/taste nice are packed with calories and fat.

Sushi is a good low calorie/fat alternative. But then the decent sized ones that are enough for a lunch are £3-£5.

Cheaper options, such as sausage rolls and slices, are loaded with fat and especially saturated fat. Plus these wouldn't keep me going for a whole afternoon.

Sushi? SUSHI??????

I fecking adore sushi.

I lack the words to describe just how much there is no sushi available with in reachable distance of my work.

There is only supermarket sushi within 10km, and certainly not within in lunch break range.....

gngghgghghhhh...must move back to civilisation one day......

Thats the problem with the sarnis to be honest. IF you could get pie flavours sarnis then thats what they would be.....the other problem is that I ate almost all of the range of sarnis during my pregnancy and (along with certain soaps and a random flash game) I still cant face being in the same room with them now. They have brought out two flavours and they are both cheese based and the other one is packed with raw onion.

So, I guess I am going to have to find the energy to make myself lunch everyday.

You could make something like tuna and sweetcorn pasta, a few days worth, and put in the tupperware dishes in the fridge, so it's ready just to lift out in the morning.

Is there a canteen where you work that you could get something like a jacket potato. Do you have access to a microwave/kettle/toaster?

Both of those things are possible and they are good ideas totem!

I just fear I am 98% maximum possible lifestyle effort and either would put me well over the top

The dinner you had was healthy, and would have been low in fat and calories. You could make more than you need for dinner and take leftovers for lunch, or you could stick with making dinner as healthy as possible for a few weeks then move onto something else.

BTW, I need to lose some weight, I'm formulating a plan for myself.

"In reality the best way to control your weight is not to have scales - you just cut back for a couple of days and dont buy bigger sized clothes."

Couldn't disagree more - daily use of scales is what has finally, after a good couple of decades of yo-yo-ing weight, kept me on the straight and narrow.

I mean, how do you know if you need to 'cut back' for a couple of ays, unless you're monitoring your weight?

Previously, I only noticed I'd gained a bit by the time my clothes were noticeably tighter - so 'cutting back' for a couple of days was hardly going to fix the problem!! By that time, only a concerted, sustained effort was going to get back me down to what I was.

Now, by hopping on the scales every day, I can see if I'm creeping up immediately, and then cutting back for a couple of days is actually all it takes - so much easier all round.

What works for one, won't for another, but my bathroom scales are a Godsend.

OP - I have to say I agree with you, if you change 'fat' for 'overweight'. It's very, very easy to creep into overweight territory, if not fat territory, without really noticing it.

I'm about 68 kilos and I'm 5'9" so a comfortable size 12; size 10 in generously-sized shops.

I have to really concentrate on my daily intake not to put on weight. I have to shun unnecessary snacks, think about portion sizes, and basically just say 'no' a lot of the time. I also have to get some sort of exercise on a regular basis; usually just walking. If I don't, the weight creeps on.

For me, it's either eat what I want and to hell with the consequences, or, be slim. It's taken me a long time to realise I can't do/be both. That's not to say I never treat myself; I do, just not as often or as much. I haven't changed my diet at all, I just eat a bit less.

Sounds easy - it's not, really, but I like it a lot more this way, being slim, so it's worth it. Plus, when I put on weight it goes straight to my face and I look terrible. Oh to be a shapely, buxom Nigella type, quaffing cake and buns, and yet still managing to slice carrots with your cheekbones.