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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

just phoned benefit fraud line to report my son's friend's mum.

553 replies

foogle · 09/01/2012 17:58

I have sat on the info for ages and didn't do anything except get angrier and angrier.

For christmas son's friend got a pony, bmx bike, x box, ipod and family ski trip.

My son got a second hand lego set as that is all we could afford this year.

Son's friend gets free school meals and all school trips paid for.

We can't afford school dinners and scrimp and save for son to go on school trips.

Son's friend's dad lives with them and works but I know she claims benefits as a single mum.

She earns £25 an hour cash in hand at a racing stables.

She gets everything paid for, including housing benefit etc.

We can't afford ponies nor lessons yet she has 2 competition horses.

I never thought I 'd do this as she's a nice person but I've had enough.

OP posts:
SugarPasteVelociraptor · 09/01/2012 20:38

This reply has been deleted

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MummyNic · 09/01/2012 20:43

Amberleaf - I certainly wouldn't expect a rebate but I'd like to see the recovered money and the future gain go to departments that have had their budgets cut. Schools, NHS, local councils etc. That's exactly who will benefit from people reporting fraud.

Abirdinthehand · 09/01/2012 20:46

just to clarify - I am deeply PRO the welfare state. That is why benefit fraud upsets me. And yes, sometmes investigations cost more than they claw back. But they are a deterrant. The police sometimes spend thousands convicting someone who has stolen £1000. But it's the LAW, they commited a CRIME so we as a society agree to pay for the investigation.

Remember as well, this family may be innocent. So no slagging them off. Just - yes, YANBU to report a reasonable suspicion. Facebook posts from a child are not really their first point of call though Hmm

Northernlurker · 09/01/2012 20:47

Whoah northernwreck I was on this thread a couple of hours ago and what I actually would say is 'Big business avoiding tax is completely morally wrong, and costs "the taxpayer" far more than the odd benefit cheat.
About £25 billion in fact. Nevertheless benefit fraud is a crime, is morally and legally wrong and people who carry out that crime should do so in the expectation that if caught it isn't going to be Nice.'

Abirdinthehand · 09/01/2012 20:50

And according to this site poeple stole about £1.2 billion in benefit frauds last year. So yes, lots less that big business tax avoidance - seperate issue surely? - but certainly worth bothering about!

Abirdinthehand · 09/01/2012 20:51

Well done NorthenLurker!

thefroggy · 09/01/2012 20:51

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Cassettetapeandpencil · 09/01/2012 20:53

This reply has been deleted

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Abirdinthehand · 09/01/2012 20:55

froggy, I guess if she knows the partner works and lives with them, and the mum claims as a lone parent, that would be enough of a suspicion. It's a very common way to commit fraud, both in cash benefits and also a way to get 2 council houses. Which makes me Angry as there are so many poeple on the council waiting lists in desperate need. Sorry, that's a bit irrelevant, as the OP has no idea about the housing I guess since she did not menion it!

Notthefullshilling · 09/01/2012 20:55

Cassettetapeandpencil if it does not stretch your perception of "relevance" to far I would suggest the commonality is just what you said.

Tax avoidance is morally wrong, tax evasion is illegal, handing out bonuses for running a buisnness in to the ground is stupid, and claiming expenses that you are not entitled too is fraud.

Why then do we equate someone defrauding the benefits system a such a huge crime, when the others involved the the activities I listed above will trouser far more, deprive the tax payer of far more, and more importantly set the example that others follow but never seem to be seen to pay the penalty.

molepom · 09/01/2012 20:56

Thank you.

The more people are reported to be milking the system, the more money is left for those who really need it.

usualsuspect · 09/01/2012 20:57

The council houses have swimming pools as well Angry

BillyBollyBandy · 09/01/2012 20:59

If someone is defrauding the benfit system by cash in hand jobs that are not declared they are taking from the pot twice, once through benefits and also by evading tax.

Tax evasion is also investigated and evaders sent to prison. Avoidance I agree is a more thorny issue, but there are teams of HMRC employees working on policy to stop avoidance and plug loopholes. Unfortunately there are also teams of non HMRC expert working to find them. Hence the huge volume of tax legislation that exists.

Both are pursued though.

NorthernWreck · 09/01/2012 21:00

Oh sorry northernlurker-didn't see you there!
Well, good, except that imo (and not yours as I wouldnt want to assume Grin ) the former is a much more serious crime, and yet nobody seems to take it quite so personally.
OP does sound jealous, and I can understand why, but at the end of the day her sons' friend's mum is just one person, and it's her son who will be affected by the fallout of this.
Also OP can't actually know for sure what her situation is (as others have said).

Abirdinthehand · 09/01/2012 21:01

Well - many people get away with benefit fraud. As i quoted - £1.2 billion last year, and considering each person can only steal so much that's a LOT of poeple. And a few get caught, and the rest get away with it, and it makes people angry.

Many companies and company directors evade tax. A few get caught, most get away with it. And it DOES make people angry - hence the Occupy London protests and the fact that even the bloody tories are considering capping bonuses - because people are pissed off.

So they are both eveil and wrong, and a lot of people who do both get away with it. And most of us are angry about both. Theft is theft on whatever scale. It's not either/or, is it?

Serenitysutton · 09/01/2012 21:02

I'm amazed at the people who seem to think it shouldn't matter that someone is
committing fraud. I know my mates cloned a lot of debit cards, I'll just keep quiet lest she gets in some trouble eh?
I'm a big fan of the welfare state, but it's there to help people in need as a safety net. It would be ridiculous to say one shouldn't be in some way grateful to recieve that- as I am grateful to have a job in a recession or get a pay rise. With any income comes conditions you must meet- the obvious one being telling the inland revenue how much you earn. I don't want the IR snopping about in my receipt tin and I'm sure a benefits claimaint doesn't want to be investigated but shit happens, part of the conditions are that you might be subject to that. If you're innocent they'll go away.

Abirdinthehand · 09/01/2012 21:03

??? usualsuspect? What's that got to do with it?

Abirdinthehand · 09/01/2012 21:03

Yup, well said serenity

NorthernWreck · 09/01/2012 21:04

I bet they can't even swim either. They just use the swimming pool to wash the Staffy in.

Serenitysutton · 09/01/2012 21:04

in my haste I forgot to say the one thing I wanted to- it couldn't matter less that the op can't tell you which specific benefits. It might be crap, but hey that's the risk you take online.

Notthefullshilling · 09/01/2012 21:05

Abirdinthehand, I respect what you are saying as you have had personal experience of working at the sharp end, as have I. People are complex and stupid sometimes intentionally so like not informing of a change in circumstances when they knew they should.

However what is almost always true is that everyone has a complex life and that cohabiting may well be something that seems simple to prove but maybe in the case of a partner having moved out to care for a sick elderly relative but who stays the odd night at home, it only seems that something is happening but in reality not. That is my objection to what the OP did. We can all think we understand what is going on but without first hand knowledge all we are doing is guessing. FB is not first hand knowledge. If I am wrong about OP having positive proof then let her come back and say that at the very least she has spoken to the women for long enough to know that she is breaking the rules.

Gunznroses · 09/01/2012 21:05

Goodness! How much do ponies cost these days anyone ? including
X- box =
ski trip =
ipod. =
Bmx bike =

And last but not the least, what's the name of this "benefit" she's claiming as i am out of work right now Hmm

Cassettetapeandpencil · 09/01/2012 21:09

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FionaBruise · 09/01/2012 21:11

i can't believe you grassed me up OP

Abirdinthehand · 09/01/2012 21:11

YY notthefullshilling. I guess I am a bit worried though about sggesting she needs CONCRETE PRROF to report it. I would say if she has enough for reasonable suspicion, she should report, and I have some trust that if the limit of her suspicion is a facebook post and a pony, they won't investigate. They get plenty of reports of very evident fraud - someone rambling about facebook won't cut it.

If I swa someone in a balaclava running into a corner shop, heard some shouting, and then saw them running out with a crate of gin, I'd report it. I might be wrong. I have no proof. He might be popping in to help his uncle move some stock to his other shop. But it would be a reasonable suspicion of theft. Same with benefits surely? it's not her job to get proof, just to report a reasonable suspicion.

She told us she had this knowledge. Now of, course, this being the internet, she could be making it up, or wrong, or whatever. But going on the knowledge she says she has? She should report it.