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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To find my dd hateful, and not be able to rise above the feeling?

110 replies

vidaloca · 09/01/2012 12:32

Have namechanged for this as I feel so ashamed.

DD is 12 and has been 'difficult' for about three years now. When I say 'difficult', I mean lazy, obstructive, aggressive and manipulative. That's when she isn't getting what she wants. When everything's going her way she's actually quite charming and funny, but as she grows older and we expect more of her, opportunities for conflict are multiplying to the point where family life is becoming really quite seriously unpleasant on most days, and the stress is taking its toll on my mental health and my marriage, and also on the health and happiness of my other two dc's.

The situation now is this. She won't voluntarily:
Do schoolwork
Go to bed when we tell her
Get up in the morning for school
Clear her plate from the table
Help with any housework or chores
Hang her coat up/put her uniform and school bag anywhere except in a crumpled heap on the floor
Tidy her room. All her clothes/books/bits and pieces, are in piles on the floor and under the bed
Or actually do anything we ask her to do if it doesn't suit her, without repeated requests, which are then met by rudeness, huffing and accusations of 'nagging'.

So far this probably sounds fairly unpleasant but typical 'tween' behaviour. I could tolerate it if this is all it was, even though it's exhausting and demoralising to have to keep telling a child to do things that they should be doing for themselves.

No - what's really destroying me is the fact that requests for her to help/get out of bed/go to bed/tidy her room, etc, are routinely met by indifference, stalling, rudeness and, eventually, aggression.

She also manipulates and stirs my younger 2 dc's up (ds's are 6 and 8) so that I have great difficulty managing their behaviour as well.

My youngest ds has aspergers and can be very difficult. He's tactless and can be obsessive and hard to divert when there is something he feel he needs to have or do. Obviously his behaviour can be hard to manage and I sympathise with dd for having to share our attention with a sibling who needs a lot of parental supervision, and tolerance from the whole family. But that is the way it is and we can't do anything about it other than try to accommodate his personality. DD refuses to make any allowances for his special needs. If he says something stupid or rude to her she pounces on it instead of ignoring it, arguing with him to the point where he'll explode - and over nothing most of the time. If she's bored in the car she'll subtly wind him up until they end up hitting each other. Almost EVERY journey with them is torture for me at the moment because of this, and I'm scared I'll end up crashing the car one day with them fighting on the back seat.

She constantly accuses me of favouring him and treating him differently from her and my middle dc, of not punishing him enough. Well - I do try to address his behaviour if he's aggressive or rude, but I can't pick him up on EVERYTHING because it simply isn't possible to do this and get from one end of the day to another holding body and soul together. I've explained this to her, and explained to her that he has difficulty with controlling his impulses, and also that he isn't able to read people's feelings in the same way that she or the rest of us do, and that as a family we have to try to find a way of dealing with this. Her response is to say that everything is my fault, that she has a friend who has 2 brothers with autism who manages much better than me. It's because I'm a 'crap mother' apparently, and 'everyone says so'. Sad

She's physically quite aggressive with the boys, although I never see her do it. She always insists that it's an accident - her hand or foot slipped, but I know she's slapped them around the face or head on many, many occasions. She also pulls faces and sniggers at them when I'm telling her or them off, so that my attempts at discipline are done against a background of their laughter. This is a new thing - and when she did it this week I lost my temper and told her that the way she was behaving me me feel so angry that I felt like picking her dinner plate up and cracking it over her head. Obviously that was a stupid and totally out of order thing to say, and I'd never do it. But she took that comment and ran with it. She overturned her plate on the table cloth and walked off screaming abuse. She shouted at me that how dare I threaten to break a plate over her head. When I tried to point out that I hadn't threatened to do this, but that she had made me feel like I wanted to do it she stuck her fingers in her ears and shouted 'shut up, shut up', only taking them out of her ears to shout more abuse at me. I managed to calm the situation down enough to get everyone ready for bed, then went off to work after DH came back.

Last night another horrible scene. She marched over to me and told me to get her blazer out of the washing machine and dry it. I told her I was busy and that she had to do it. After a five minute argument she went downstairs and roughly pulled it out of the machine, along with half the rest of the clean wet washing, which she left lying on the kitchen floor. I politely asked her to pick the washing up and put it back in the machine. Her response was 'no. Are you going to try to make me then? If you touch me I'll call the police'. I repeated calmly that she should put the washing back in the machine. She then came right up to me, invading my personal space and stared in my face with her arms crossed - said she wasn't going to do it.

I walked away as it was clear to me that we'd crossed a line and that I didn't have anywhere to turn. Told DH who (again - calmly) went in and told her to go to bed straight away. It was about 8.30pm by this point. She took her wet blazer upstairs into the office room where we keep the dryer, but instead of then going to bed she just stood in my office, touching one of the tools I use for work. I told her to go to bed and to put my tool down. She ignored me and went to walk out with it. I asked her politely and firmly to give it to me, and eventually just took it out of her hands with a bit of a struggle, as she refused to let go of it. She walked ahead of me down the hallway, saying 'why are you following me' (I wasn't, I was going back downstairs), then as she got to the end of the hallway kicked a bin which was standing there waiting to be emptied. The contents went all over the floor. I told her to pick the rubbish up and put it back in the bin, and once again she outright refused, just smirking at me with her arms crossed.

At which point I completely lost the plot, grabbed her pyjama top, pulled her down towards the rubbish and bellowed 'PICK IT UP!', about 5 times. When she pulled away and shouted back at me, I pushed the bin and the rubbish into her room and said that if she didn't want to pick it up, she could have it on her floor so that the rest of us didn't have to step over the mess.

I was shaking all over and mortified at having lost my temper. DH came up from downstairs, calmly made her go into her room and I went off and sat in the kitchen with a cup of tea and 15 slices of toast. This morning she blanked me and deliberately went off to school without her packed lunch.

I'm shitting myself for her coming back from school. I found her behaviour last night intimidating and horrible and I just don't know what to do.

I'm worn out with all the arguing and the conflict. And over - what?

Our family life should be great - we have lovely extended family, a decent home, enough money coming in, our health and each other. DH and I are ok - we don't argue, but the stress of managing our children's behaviour IS a strain on our marriage because we are both so tired and sad about it.

And last night I had this thought: "only another 6 years to go and then she can move out". Sad That's just so wrong. We should be enjoying our children, not constantly, constantly battling with them over every day life.

And the worst of it is that I'm blaming myself all the time - I feel so inadequate as a parent. And I think everyone else blames me as well. I feel like I've not been tough enough with them in the past, that I haven't instilled good habits and now they're going to grow up lazy, rude and helpless. Sad

And the guilt is making me resent dd SO much.

Sorry for epic post by the way. Well done to anyone who's got this far.

OP posts:
QOD · 09/01/2012 16:52

My dd . . . . I need to get her to do a test/get tested. Shes such a challenge. Sympathies to all parents of teens

mamhaf · 09/01/2012 17:55

I haven't read all the advice here, but as the mother of 2 teenage girls, one of whom has come out the other side of this phase, remember this is normal teenage behaviour.

Exhausting, but normal.

this book is brilliant - I recommend you buy or borrow it. We started using the strategies it outlines, with dramatic effect.

Good luck!

lesley33 · 09/01/2012 18:03

It sounds like it would be helpful to build time when you do fun things together - just the two of you. When your relationship is only about conflict, things can get very very hard.

KatieScarlett2833 · 09/01/2012 18:10

DD was far, far, worse than that from 13 to almost 15

She is now 16 and a love.

She came up to me a couple of days ago and said (not for the first time) "Mum, I'm so, so, so sorry, what was I thinking?"

notnowImreading · 09/01/2012 18:11

I've only read your OP and not the whole thread. I also have no children of my own. Having got my complete lack of qualifications to say anything at all out of the way, I just wanted to say that the phase she's going through now really does sound horrible and it does come across very strongly how patient you are being and hard you ate trying.

At the risk of sounding ridiculous, have you considered boarding school? My adopted brother, who was vile at the time, went for two years and came back utterly changed for the better. He has been lovely ever since and is 25 now without looking back. It saved our family and has led to his very successful career.

flatbread · 09/01/2012 19:09

DH and I are ok - we don't argue, but the stress of managing our children's behaviour IS a strain on our marriage because we are both so tired and sad about it

I think you need to focus on your marriage and it will be good for dcs to know that they don't always come first.

Could you leave dcs with a babysitter for a weekend every 2 months or so and go for a romantic time away?

FabbyChic · 09/01/2012 19:18

Not all children who behave badly have an undiagnosed SN, years ago there were no such SN to cover bad behaviour.

Some kids just try their luck and push and push and push.

FabbyChic · 09/01/2012 19:19

There isnt necessarily a LABEL for every child who behaves like a mini tyrant.

AmberLeaf · 09/01/2012 19:20

Fabby SNs have always been there, you just didnt see them because people with SNs were sent away to institutions.

Given that if you have 1 child on the autistic spectrum you are statistically more likely to have another who is [it is genetic] its not unreasonable to suggest that the OPs DD may have SNs.

RichTeaAreCrap · 09/01/2012 19:55

OP it sounds like you are having a horrible time, I hope things improve soon. I can't offer any help as I don't have a DD but I do feel for you.

JugglingWithSnowballs · 09/01/2012 20:19

I think you've got to love the child (always) and only hate the behaviour (sometimes)

Maybe spend some time just with your dd and get your DH to go out, or stay in, with the boys.

Having a dd is a wonderful thing. What are you hoping for from the relationship ? How could you work on making it better ?

Forget the boys, including DH, just occasionally, and focus on you and your daughter - it will benefit you all if you can get this relationship on a surer footing.

What could the two of you do together that you both might enjoy ?

SugarPasteVelociraptor · 09/01/2012 20:29

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

quirrelquarrel · 09/01/2012 20:44

Yes, but teenagers didn't exist until...what, the 50s? So we have a myriad of excuses.

KatieScarlett2833 · 09/01/2012 20:46

You were allowed to beat them with sticks in the 50's

Notsomuch anymore

Grin
rhondajean · 09/01/2012 20:57

Some of that could be about my 12 year old at times!

I read a great article about why teenage girls fight with their mothers. It's because they are establishing their own identity and they know that, no matter what, you will always love them so it's a safe way to be an arse.

Mines doesn't cross that line thought. I don't know why they differ.

One thing I did think of. When they are being arsey, it's very easy just to,think about how horrible they are being. You need to keep praising her and building her confidence. If she does even the smallest thing you ask, smile and genuinely tell her, thank you. That means a lot. Tell her how proud you are of her school results. Tell her a funny story about when she was little. Remind her she does mattered to you, even though you could choke her at the moment!

And maintain the boundaries. If she does something wrong, don't be afraid to set a consequence. Good luck!

dietstartstmoz · 09/01/2012 21:11

Vidaloca, I'm so sorry to hear you are having a rough time. I only have boys and they are much younger than your DD, but one of my sons is autistic. I have a lovely friend who has girls and her eldest started displaying terrible behaviour aged 12, we told her it was normal teenage stuff but it did escalate and she was diagnosed with aspergers and unfortunately has had some ongoing difficulties. Hopefully this time will pass and I'm sure there are plenty of people on here who will have some good advice, but do keep a close eye on her and if things continue please ask for help from your GP.

skybluepearl · 09/01/2012 21:32

I can't like her at the moment, and don't want to spend time with her.

I write as some one who was a very difficult teenager but who now has a good relationship with my parents. I think your statement above highlights the the problem. She feels completely judged, rejected by you and worthless in your eyes. I think she suffers from low self esteem as a result of feeling rejected by her parents? Her emotional cup is empty and for her to be happy, it needs to be full. I know you don't really want to spend time with her as you don't like her but you have to get over this and at least pretend to like her. Real positive feelings will follow I'm sure. You need to arrange to spend some quality time with her three times a week or a bit every day. The emphasis being on having fun and holding her in high esteem. You can build her up on a daily basis anyway - touching her on the shoulder, quick hugs, telling her funny things that have happened in your day in the hope that one day she will do the same, telling her she looks nice, thanking her when she does something helpful, telling her how special she is. I think this might help her feel more settled in her own skin and feel more positive, appreciated and loved? Also you could use third person affirmation ? so when chatting with friends/hubby in ear shot of her, try to make positive comments about her and never negative. Also sit her down when she is calmer one day and tell her you should both make a fresh start and what can WE do to move forward. Be positive and loving.

skybluepearl · 09/01/2012 21:59

amazon book suggestions -

Have a New Teenager by Friday: From Mouthy and Moody to Respectful and Responsible in 5 Days - top reviews and very effective

Flanelle · 09/01/2012 22:25

The 'love the child, hate the behaviour' thing baffles me - we ARE our behaviour. You can't separate the two. Also, you can't hate the behaviour if you truly understand it - I feel that very strongly. You seem to have some bridges to rebuild and I think you can do it. You sound like a great mum and a good person to me, just battling some big shit. skybluepearl has some great suggestions, all of which I totally second.

JugglingWithSnowballs · 09/01/2012 22:31

Lots of people find it quite helpful Flanelle but fair enough if you don't !

I just know that I will always love my DCs. That helps me, especially when we're having a crazy 5 minutes together !

Love the book title BTW - "How to have a new teenager by Friday" Grin

I'm getting my first teenager in April !

sheepgomeep · 09/01/2012 22:59

vidaloca I also wondered if your dd was on the autistic spectrum too and that thought occured to me before I got half way down your post. Of course she may not be, its just a thought.

My ds who is also 12 sounds exactly like your dd though and is currently waiting for an autism assessment. he also has adhd and his behaviour has got so much worse in the last few months.

He is rude, aggressive and violent, winds up the younger ones and will slap and kick my 4 year dd2 and also break stuff around the house. Ive had to ring the police as he went for me in front of my dd's. We've had it all, the jealous outbursts, the blaming everybody else but himself, inability to see things from anothers perspective..

Ive noticed that he cannot cope with change and will lash out and bang his head, this is reaction to extreme stress, he can't cope with a lot of noise and things going on around him. Could this be happening with your dd? My ds finds it hard to cope with my 4 year old dd but can cope ok with the 20 month old strangely and his 9 year old sis but when they are all making a racket together he can have overload and react badly.

There is NO excuse for bad behaviour though especially aggression and the police were very keen to point this out to ds, whether or not he has adhd/autism he cannot go around smashing things up or attacking people.

I do find that a strict routine helps a lot with him. From getting up and going to bed its all written down and put on the wall, he knows when things will happen and at what time.

He now has sanctions if he does something out of order. xbox or phone gets taken away and he's made to do chores. He threw his phone on the floor 2 days ago in a fit of rage. it was promptly taken away and he got it back today. I try to ignore. If he's completely irrational then I cant talk to him anyway but that is hard. It took him an hour an a half to completly calm down the other day and reach an understanding of a particular problem which my 9 year old could grasp in a heartbeat.

I do understand what you are going on, Your dd may/may not have other issues going on but its so hard as a family to cope with this sort of behaviour and it does bring you to the brink (ive been there) I bet your dd's behaviour confuses and frightens her too, the hormones certainly don't help!

shagmundfreud · 09/01/2012 23:04

Wanted to say 'thank you' to everyone who contributed to this thread before I go to bed - so much encouragement and loads of good ideas.

Smile

I've decided I need to concentrate on building a better relationship with dd, and then focus on her education.

And actually she came home from school and said 'sorry' about how she'd behaved last night. It humbles me that she's better at apologising than I am (although to be honest at the moment she's got more to apologise for....).

Have been able to give her a hug and a kiss tonight, which is good. Also, insisted she spent an hour on her English homework, which she did (ok, after a bit of stropping, but she did do it). Also half an hour of maths with her dad.

And then she went off to bed with only the smallest amount of procrastination (usually we have an hour of us telling her to go to bed, and her roaming about on the landing shouting 'I'm just bloody going to the toilet OKAY!')

So - that'll energise me for the days ahead!

shewhowines · 10/01/2012 11:07

Skybluepearl makes sense. There is no point talking to them when they are emotional. They won't accept a consequence/that they are in the wrong, in the heat of the moment, but they often will do when they are calmer.

Did your namechange get mixed up? If so, then everything seems calmer in your household now and it is good that she has apologised. That seems a good basis to move forward, especially if you implement the lots of good advice given on this thread.

Good luck!

janelikesjam · 10/01/2012 11:19

Hi OP, do feel for you too. I hadn't thought about having aspergers herself, but I do think it is useful to sit down and think through what are the "problems" that might be going on first.

But if it is a case of Little Madam being rude and getting her way, I really think you are totally entitled to make some serious changes. I thought it was interesting that you felt guilty because you got so angry with her you grabbed her and shouted at her (unless I read it wrong?) when actually I think yours was a normal reaction to horrible and completley unnacceptable behaviour. Does she see you "stuff" your anger, and take advantage of that?!

Anyway, I do think some of it is part of the "entitlement" culture. My son is only 9 and I struggle sometimes. I think having very clear rules about some things is really helpful, and just not taking any s*. Easier said than done I know.

Perhaps there are issues because your youngest has aspergers, but I think alot of excuses can also be made here. Is she affected by peer behaviour e.g. others in her school is another question I have.

Either way, you are entitled to respect. Good luck OP.

janelikesjam · 10/01/2012 11:20

Good things calmed down, I hope things improve :-)