To want my children to speak beautifully

[MiniMonty]

I'm a Londoner, we use "nice round vowels" so bath is "baarth" and grass is "graars" but I live in Birmingham with a partner from Sheffield and my kids use flat vowels which, I confess, are simply ugly on my ears.
Am I being unreasonable to want (and to encourage) my kids to use "round vowels" and to have a Southern (BBC or RP) accent ?

Saw does not rhyme with door,though door doesn't rhyme with poor either.

So you are one of those nasty little snobs that think that anything other than a London accent is wrong. There is nothing wrong with wanting your children to use proper grammar etc but teaching them that they are better than those who don't speak like Londoners is asking for a whole world of problems later in life and adults with serious attitude problems.

I find this all very amusing, tbh. I especially find both the people who are being a bit snobby, and the people who are getting all riled about it rather amusing .

I still can't figure out what RP is .

I listened to my children last night - ds1 is pure Dub, dd sounds like a cross between South Dublin and American (very strange, and a little posh) and ds2 still sounds pretty much like me.

However, I know that all three have different accents for different occasions, completely unconsciously, all have Granny Voices (which I presume they will use at interviews in later life) and ds1 can do a fabulistic Cork accent which reduces me to howls of laughter every time.

Wouldn't it be all very boring if we all sounded like the Queen.

By the way trois, you are wrong [gavel].

Paw, Pore and Poor do NOT sound the same. There is something wrong with your ears (or you have brainwashed your entire office to speak funny).

Just as a matter of interest, does your saw/sore sound have an "r" in it at all?

You need to stand in front of a mirror and say "saaaaaaaaaauuuuuuuuuuuuu" and then add a little "w" (like the beginning of wuff) OR a little "r" l(ike the beginning of "ruff") as if you were a puppy.

That way you get s-au-wu (and then drop the u) or s-au-ru (and drop the u).

Two completely different words.

and you will look and feel like a complete wally, so it would be best if you did this in front of the mirror in your office

And can I throw "tissue" into the mix

Tish-oo or tiss-you?

This is a very important distinction: According to my Granny tissue is the one word used to distinguish a commoner (tish -oo) from a wanna-be-snob (tiss-you), because, of course, real upper-class important people say handkerchief

I was brought up in a rough part of London. My parents were adamant that i would not speak like a 'commoner'and insisted that i watch the BBC news . I speak with a so called 'posh accent' and it has held me in good stead. I truly believe that if i had spoken in the 'accent' predominant in the area that i was brought up in i would not have achieved what i have in my life. Whether people want to believe it or not, accent DOES matter. The situation has improved over the years and there are many more people in higher positions who have 'regional accents', but there is generally way of speaking which commands greater respect. When the OP says that she wants her daughter to speak 'beautifully' she REALLY means that she does not want her dcs to acquire a regional accent.
However, i love regional accents(and i don't mean in a patronising manner).

AIBU for wanting to move before my child reaches school age?

I'm from Buckinghamshire and am currently living in Bristol with my south west husband and occasionally his outrageously Bristonian son.

YANBU - I went (on a scholarship) to a boarding school up to the age of 13 and so spoke with an RP accent naturally. My family all have either broad Manc or broad Welsh accents other than me. Yes, when I went to a "normal" school (sorry, don't know how else to describe it!) At 13 I was bullied over my accent, and it did upset me. But on my mother's advice I ignored it and just thought of it as reverse snobbery and, lo and behold, when I stopped rising to the bait they stopped making fun. Meanwhile other kids were picked on for lots of other things be it weight, hair colour etc.

Kids will always pick on someone for something!

Now I'm working I quite like my accent. People still make fun in a nice jokey sort of way and I don't mind at all :) I won't get into the class wars but I will say that all accents are lovely in their own way - the diversity of accents and dialects in the (tiny) UK is quite amazing, and I don't think you're wrong for wanting your kids to speak a certain way.

The new English Language GSCE includes a module on local and regional speech, so children with a regional accent/dialect or with family who have different accents/dialects may well end up at an advantage. I certainly found it easier to teach with my black country accent than some of my more generically accented colleagues.

There's also such a thing as 'convergence' which is when you modify your accent depending on the person you're speaking to. As an example, my accent is not very broad at all when I'm here in Wales with DH, because I want him and others to understand me and have a desire (conscious or otherwise) to fit in with the norm. When I've been on the phone to my mom I become totally incomprehensible to DH and his family for at least an hour. I have been told that the closer I get to Dudley the broader my accent becomes. It's not done consciously, so trust that your children will modify their speech / accents depending on their situation as they get older.

The only conscious decision I've made about my accent / dialect recently is that no child of mine is ever to call me mummy to my face. Where I come from, we have mommies. I will also try to teach them what blarting/mithering/bibble/fittle/bost etc. mean so that they can understand what their grandparents are on about. The North Walian accents and dialect they will develop are not for me to mess with. Even if they do pronounce you as ewe.

I love this thread and I love regional accents. I've had to tone down my Dundonian so people where I now live can understand me. i sound a bit Jean Brodie-ish too now.

Sadly though I've lost quite a few words as well as the accent

(And if you pronounce poor to rhyme with paw, try saying poo and adding an r on the end) for the correct pronunciation.

Maryzed I love your 'tissue' example. I can't stand 'tiss-you' or 'iss-you' (issue), as they sound so very self-consciously affected, your granny is right!

OP children are extremely adaptable and pick up and drop accents far more easily than adults. Fitting in at school is important. It's one thing to be one of a significant minority at school speaking in a neutral accent (hardly anyone actually speaks RP these days), quite another to be the only child to do so - not that they will, they'll just change back for you at home.

I can understand you not wanting them to be 'trapped' with a strong accent and no other way of expressing themselves but I think I'd be concentrating on vocabulary, grammar and clarity of expression. That way they will be able to express themselves clearly to anyone and you'll find that accent alters depending on situation and interlocutor.

It does bother me when people use regionally-varied grammar and colloquialisms, unusual to the extent that they obscure meaning, in public-facing work situations and I feel quite sorry for people 'trapped' in such accents to the extent that they cannot make themselves understood to people from other regions and especially to speakers of English as a foreign language.

Or, if it bothers you that much, maybe you should move to a more upmarket part of Birmingham or get your child into one of the grammar schools! There is definitely a 'neutrally accented' population in Birmingham, as in any large town. You could try engineering friendships rather than accent directly!

You're going to have to get used to the short vowels though. Are you aware that it is pretty much only people from SE England, in the whole of the UK, that use them? You're the oddities with the strong regional accent

I am from much further north than B'ham and speak lovely 'standard northern' English. That is, no-one can tell where I'm from, other than 'not SE'. (That's apart from the ignorant twits who think everyone outside the SE has a cloth cap, outside toilet and strong regional accent, therefore I must either be southern or privately educated). I like lots of regional accents though and, so long as people can be understood, really don't see the problem.

• that use - long - vowel sounds.

Barth and grars are not RP for all of the UK, just for the south east! Northern RP and Scottish RP use normal vowels. I think you are being a bit ridiculous, as extended vowels don't actually sound nice to everyone (irritates me that older daughter picked them up from her London-born dad). Also you're setting them up for trouble in future as I remember posh friends at university having terrible problems when it came to the time to chant 'education for the masses, not just for the ruling classes' at fee-related demonstrations.

WibblyBibble

I have to say "barth" sounds ridiculous to American ears. :)

I think the important thing, rather than when one says Bath or Barth is enunciation. My mum and dad don't use the letter "h" at all when speaking, and I struggle with it too. I have to remember to use it too when I'm at home (or 'ome as my parents will tend to say).

A Scottish friend moved from St Albans back to Scotland the moment his DD started to speak with an English accent. As someone who speaks with an English accent i found it incredibly irritating.

mynameisnotearl do you have boys or GELS i loved miss jean brodie she was a legend

tissue pronounced as tiss-you gives me the heebie-jeebies. i don't know why, there's just something really deeply unpleasant about the sound... like one of those stupid little 'ladylike' sneezes.

[i say tish-oo and sneeze ach-oo]

Uh oh, someone's going to ask soon how everyone pronounces scone

I have Gels and a Boy mrsjay and although I like to make myself understood here in the midlands, if I ever start saying 'frit' and 'bab' - somebody shoot me please.