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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To want my children to speak beautifully

291 replies

MiniMonty · 07/01/2012 23:52

I'm a Londoner, we use "nice round vowels" so bath is "baarth" and grass is "graars" but I live in Birmingham with a partner from Sheffield and my kids use flat vowels which, I confess, are simply ugly on my ears.
Am I being unreasonable to want (and to encourage) my kids to use "round vowels" and to have a Southern (BBC or RP) accent ?

OP posts:
ReduceRecycleRegift · 09/01/2012 21:53

this:
"Barth and grarss' actually sound very common to most people. Over egging a vowel is worse than a flat vowel as with a flat vowel nothing unneccessary is added"
yup!

troisgarcons · 09/01/2012 21:54

barff???
Dear god, my mother would have bleched my mouth out if I ever ff'd rather than th'd!

Fair comment tho' - my parents werent English, they had a fairly unique accent and I still have a lot of inflection on certain sounds that I've learned to disguise by living here.. It only comes out when I've had a drink or I talk to my own nationality - the mask slips. One of the traits I have is I can pick up accents to disguise myself.

the only talent I know I have is mimicry Blush for accent or inflection combined with for the amusement of others mannerisms.

freerangeeggs · 09/01/2012 21:55

whereismymind73 : I studied Scots at uni and your post has made me feel really sad and frustrated.

Studies into attitudes to accent/dialect/language have shown that varieties associated with wealth are generally considered to be attractive. For example, the Liverpool accent was considered to be prestigious at one point (17th C? Can't remember exactly, will have to look it up) because the city was booming, but as poverty increased so did contempt for the accent. Similarly, the Southern Irish accent was once considered to be extremely unattractive but is now, according to surveys, amongst the most desirable due to the ROI's recent (and somewhat shortlived) success in Europe.

Glaswegian accents are considered to be amongst the least attractive in the country, according to those same surveys. They come just above 'Asian' accents, in fact.

Of course the reason for this is presumably Glasgow's appalling poverty rates. The Glaswegian dialect of Scots is spoken almost exclusively by working class people due to the same linguistic imperialism that practically killed off the Celtic languages in the UK (whether by the carrot or the stick, it's still imperialism). The Glasgow middle-classes have their indigenous dialect educated out of them due to insidious and often unconscious class-based prejudice that disguises itself as a simple matter of taste.

That classism is as bad as the racist attitudes that led to generic 'Asian' accents coming bottom of the surveys - possibly worse in some ways as they're not acknowledged and are considered to be acceptable. In fact, people like me who value these non-prestige varities are the exception.

I have worked with Glaswegian children and my mind boggles at how you could possibly find their speech unattractive. My favourite example was a story told by a four-year-old from Royston, and extremely deprived inner-city area - "and then ma mammy flinged the cat oot the windae!"

Scots was once the language of court. It's a language rich in literature that doesn't always translate easily into English. At Glasgow University it's acceptable to submit essays written in Scots. And now it's the language of poor people, so nobody wants to speak it any more.

I would have no more respect for a person who judges others based on accent or dialect (Scots, including words like 'aye' and 'hoose' - which btw is identical to the original Old English word 'hus', much as 'coo' comes for OE 'cu' and 'moose' from 'mus' - is a minority language recognised by the European Commission) than I do for those who judge based on sex or race. It's prejudice, plain and simple.

Sorry about this rant. It makes me so, so sad that we Scots insist on doing this to ourselves. It's our language, so of course it must be shit.

lottiegb · 09/01/2012 22:12

My only difficulty with Glaswegian is that it can be very difficult to understand. I remember visiting for the first time at 18, asking a question of the person in the ticket office at the underground and, after asking her to repeat her answer twice, just giving up. I'm sure it's about 'getting your ear in' and recognised the same incomprehension in others, with the north-eastern accents familiar to me. Some accents really are harder to understand than others.

On 'f for th' I grew up thinking it was a speech impediment and probably only in adulthood realised that it was an accent, or deliberate affectation, when I recognised that lots of people from the same area used it. I'm sure one Berkshire friend has adapted to northern-ness by using 'baff'!

CheerfulYank · 09/01/2012 22:15

I love will'nae for will not! But of course I am from the States and love accents. :)

Feminine saw and door definitely do not rhyme in an American accent. Saw is like s-ah-w (the w is barely there, it almost rhymes with "pah") and door rhymes with pore.

yellowraincoat · 09/01/2012 22:17

Totally agree with freerangeeggs. I grew up in NE Scotland speaking Doric. Such a funny and descriptive dialect, but was constantly told off at school for using it, and even my mum would pick me up on it.

Now I have lost my accent - makes me feel sad.

flyingspaghettimonster · 09/01/2012 22:23

Cheerful Yank - there are a heck of a lot of different American Accents though, I imagine in some they could sound the same.

CheerfulYank · 09/01/2012 22:28

I've heard most of them, Spaghetti. :) Maybe, maybe in one of the very thick southern accents they could sound close, but I doubt there's an American accent where they'd rhyme.

Feminine · 09/01/2012 22:29

cheerful ...I tested my american family (those with Mid-Western accents) too...just cos I am still wondering...

It does sound the same Confused

Feminine · 09/01/2012 22:31

Door and sore right? :)

Feminine · 09/01/2012 22:31

maybe they have been around me too much? Grin

CheerfulYank · 09/01/2012 22:43

Saw, jaw, la-la-la

Door, sore, poor, lore

:)

Feminine · 09/01/2012 22:51

Ok ...cheerful I practiced.

You are correct...with a little adjustment I can make/hear the difference.

My son's tried again too.

They must have (well I know they do) a mixed accent ...that original sound I spoke of must have been from me?

No hope for the visiting American relatives though Wink I now don't know what they heard?

Maryz · 09/01/2012 23:38

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

MynameisnotEarl · 10/01/2012 19:33

freerangeeggs - I love your post, especially "and then ma mammy flinged the cat oot the windae!" Grin and also Sad because I have lost a lot of words, expressions, and some of my accent which I love.

Spuddybean · 10/01/2012 19:39

i am currently worrying about my dc (none born yet!) having a different accent from DP and i. We are planning to move to Canada and i'm pregnant, so baby will be a canuck, a?

psketti · 10/01/2012 19:41

Quite a lot of the telly presenters have regional accents these days. Even on the BBC i think you'll find.

lottiegb · 10/01/2012 20:16

Spuddy yes they will Smile

Some relatives of mine moved there with small children and, being children, they'd adopted the local accent within weeks. (They also had much better opportunities to learn French than they would have here, with Canadian accent). As adults they are clearly Canadian but use a few English words, picked up from parents, which sound quite quaint and nice. A lovely place to grow up!

LucyBagchops · 10/01/2012 20:19

cory is right - much better to be able to do both, my mother taught me to speak beautifully when I was very small, but the full-bodied 'ugly' Yorkshire accent I use when speaking to friends these days would probably make MiniMonty retch Grin

My 'educated' accent is only used in interviews and other situations with strangers when I don't want them to make assumptions about my intelligence/background based on my accent, which is wrong I suppose but just easier

Spuddybean · 10/01/2012 20:23

lottie that's why we are going; to give dc's a good life. I am from London so find friendly people a bit odd, i have to remind myself when i am there 'they are just being nice, not trying to mug me!' Wink

I'll have to get used to the A at the end of every sentence...and the unnecessary perkiness

janelikesjam · 10/01/2012 20:36

I love all kinds of accents, including many regional accents.

Unfortunately I really hate "street chavva gangster" as personified by Catherine Tate. We will have to leave London largely because of that one simple fact. AIBU?

TurkeyBurgerThing · 10/01/2012 21:03

I despise my accent and have had a hard time my ENTIRE life. I have a "posh" voice. Fuck knows why but I've lived in Scotland my entire life within 20 miles of the same scottish city.

I was bullied at school, people are abusive to me telling me to "go home" and I've been physically attacked for being "English".

I thought about going for some kind of local accent elecution lessons to fit in but nothing like that exists. Not a week goes by when someone doesn't say something about me "not being from these parts". I hate it so much.

dementedma · 10/01/2012 21:03

Glasgow accent is hideous - I live in Scotland and find the incessant singsong wailing really grates after a while. its really really annoying to listen to. I like Highland accents and Borders. Central Fife accent and dialect is awful - its where we live and I hate hearing the DCs using it at home but accept they use it at school to survive.

Kookmg · 12/01/2012 15:50

My children (6 and 8) go to a school in Lewisham, south-east London. I have encouraged them to be "bilingual", and occasionally tease them gently about some of the stuff that comes home. They both understand the value of speaking freely with their peers but of speaking RP when it matters.

Lemonylemon · 12/01/2012 16:00

"Quite a lot of the telly presenters have regional accents these days. Even on the BBC i think you'll find."

We're Londoners and DD was watching Nina and the Neurons the other day and then telling me to feel her "spain"...... It took me a while to realise that she was asking me to feel her spine.....