to regret having looked at further education threads

[butterfliesandladybirds]

and feel envious of all the people who have DC getting such excellent exam results and offers of places at Oxbridge?

I haven't seen the threads or got DC of that age, but I can imagine there'd be a lot of pressure I'd prefer not to have my DC under, at Oxbridge.

Might be wrong like, but I'm sure they've got all the same stresses and crap all DC at university have, but more because of the expectation that goes with the name of the place.

I've been to 3 universities and the 'worst' one of the three was by far the most relaxed and enjoyable out of the three and the one I enjoyed the most and flourished at

Everyone is different

Of course Oxford is stressful. That's why its graduates tend to become leaders, chief executives and experts in their field. If you want your DCs to graduate with crappy degrees from crap universities, go for it, but don't expect them to do much except work in a call centre.

My DH is an Oxford graduate.
He has told advised DD she would be happier somewhere with less pressure.
She looked at him like this . She isn't yet eleven.

I should add, he's been to a further three universities. He mostly enjoyed Reading.

Actually my Oxford degree, back in the dark ages, was rather badly taught. I also felt it was a bit of a whizz-bang tour through English Literature.

And my Oxford contemporaries do a wide range of jobs, many of which do not involve being Leaders In Their Fields.

My DH was pretty unlikely to ever be a leader in his field. Unless his field was Latin or Greek. The openings for leaders are pretty restricted though.

I disagree that Oxbridge is really stressful (from personal experience). Some people feel the pressure, but I think some students feel the pressure anywhere. In any university there will be

• Perfectionists who put a lot of pressure on themselves and just work to the exclusion of everything else (sport, drama, music, beer etc)
• People who are at the bottom of the ability strata and are struggling not to get a third.

and those people are not going to enjoy it as much as people who are at the top of the ability strata or who just don't care that much if they don't get a triple first.

If anything, Cambridge probably doesn't put enough pressure on undergrads, especially in arts subjects where contact time is minimal. In some arts subjects there are no formal exams for 2 years and your final grade is awarded on your third year's papers. You can basically doss for 2 years and then work your arse off in Year 3 and come out with a first.

There can be a darker side to getting fabulous exam results and going up to Oxford and Cambridge. It doesn't suit everyone. Like the dear friend of my dcs who got to Oxbridge but, unlike her elder sibling, found it all a bit of a struggle and not somewhere she felt comfortable. Sadly, she became so depressed and fearful that she was failing her parents that she killed herself at the end of her first term.

Yes, but there are student suicides at all Universities, across the ability strata.

The suicide rate at Cambridge is lower than that of the general age matched population, so you're less likely to commit suicide if you go to Cambridge than if you don't.

As per my previous post, there's no reason why a student would find Oxbridge any less or more stressful than being at (eg) Keele. If you're struggling against your peers at your chosen Uni, you're going to feel like a failure.

What's the suicide rate for university students against the age matched population generally?

My impression is that there are more students inclined to depression at Oxford and Cambridge than elsewhere, not less. I rather thought that came with the territory. I would think it was arguable that that black cloud came from within the studnts themselves, rather than the pressure imposed. In some cases I suppose it must be a marrying of both.

OP YANBU, but equally it's not the be all and end all.

I'm the first person in my family in three generations to go to a non-Oxbridge university. I applied to keep people quiet, but had no intention of going because I know it wouldn't have suited me.

I think my sister hit the nail on the head describing her experience - you take the people who have always been the top of their subject at school and suddenly they aren't the best, and they are surrounded by people who seem cleverer, happier and more confident. The people who realise that earlier on do well, the people who take longer to realise it begin to doubt themselves and struggle.

One of my friends went and hated it, and my sister told them that as long as everytime you get upset you tell yourself "it's just a means to an end" then that's fine. Frankly I think "just a means to an end" is a pretty miserable way to get through uni, but I'm feeling that at mine too.

My personal belief is that you never know if a university was right for you until it's too late. I would have been happier doing a different course somewhere else, but I'm determined to graduate. The pressure has only come from me, but I feel that at Oxbridge I would have become too competitive.

I've just had a quick scout about, and it seems there might be a case to be made for students going to university in Oxford having higher rates of deliberate self harm (which I suppose must indicate some kind of underlying psychological trauma), with male students having a higher suicide rates than the control group.

(Although I've only read the abstract and sure the research could be picked to pieces )

linerunner sorry- don't know. The article only mentioned Cambridge.

Yellowstone I think that's the problem with "impressions" re Oxbridge though. They're all pervasive and very effective in dissuading state school candidates from applying. I had to fight a tide of "Ooh, it's very stressful. Are you sure you'll cope?" "Ooh, there are a lot of anorexics there," "ooh, everyone will be from public school and they won't speak to you", "Ooh, my friend's granddaughter's dog's second owner went there and they committed suicide"

I bet the students at St Pauls don't have to hear all that negative crap in their application year.

Two students commit suicide a year at Cambridge. There's every chance they would have committed suicide anyway. I think there are about 10,000 undergrads (don't know about postgrads but there are a lot of them, but lets assume all suicides are undergrads) so 9,998 undergrads don't commit suicide every year, or the rate is 0.02%. Hardly an epidemic.

Sorry, I didn't link to the frickin' paper

I wasn't suggesting there was an epidemic, tbh. Instead, I was pointing out, in the context of the OP being envious about other people's dcs who get to Oxford and Cambridge, that things are not always or necessarily a bed of roses as a result of these achievements..

I'm interested in the comparable stats, but having been to a 'good' university myself I can understand that some of the students at 18 are already fairly troubled.

Oh and I think the OP was being a tad ironic and I know where she's coming from.

I think they're saying that more students self harmed with the intention of suicide than the control rather than actual successful suicides were higher IYSWIM but yeah, seems the students are more suicidal than your average Oxford resident.

Not sure if the Cambridge stat referred to the general population of Cambridge or the general population of the UK.

The bottom line is probably that if you're a perfectionist control freak prone to depression, feelings of inadequacy or suicidal thoughts you're not going to benefit from a stint at Oxbridge or any other top tier Uni. In fact, you're probably going to find any station in life a struggle. However, I don't like the way that this is often translated in popular thought that the alleged pressures of Oxbridge (which don't really exist) can make perfectly happy, normal people suicidal.

Maybe I was just lucky in that I went there assuming I would be the thickest person ever to be admitted, and was pleasantly surprised to find that I was pretty average (never going to get the starred first, but not in danger of a Des or Doug either).

Well i have a son of nearly 14. He has no real idea of what he wants to do but he has already stated he has no wish to go to any university let alone Oxbridge. Shall i shoot myself now as i have clearly failed him or should i be happy i am raising a happy, polite, hard working but not overly academic young man.

My DS has already decided which degree he wants to do and at a university that is top in his chosen area.

He knows which A Levels he needs to do.

He knows which GCSEs he needs to do to make this possible.

He is already building on his experience in the field.

He's 13. He isn't interested in going to Oxbridge. They're not the be all and end all. Not everyone wants to be a world leader or a chief exec. And there is a middle ground between world leader and working in a call centre!

Our only problem is how on earth are he or we going to afford it?

We will not be able to afford to support him in any way whatsoever.

OP - just don't read that thread!!!

'And my Oxford contemporaries do a wide range of jobs, many of which do not involve being Leaders In Their Fields'

So very true!
I have numerous friends who are doing perfectly mundane and ordinary jobs so that they can continue to have time to work on their passion for medieval field systems, Etruscan pottery and 15th century Hungarian. Not all Oxford graduates are driven to compete in a commercial area. The one I married certainly isn't, and I hardly think primary school teacher counts either.