AIBU to think that Cameron is telling nurses to do things that they already do?

[MyNameIsNotNurse]

Or aim to do given the oppertunity.
Link

David Cameron's 'ideas'
Hourly checks on patients to make sure they have had enought to eat/drink and are comefortable.
Isn't this just basic care?
Also to have members of the public doing spot checks on their local hospitals, isn't this just going a bit too far?

I would really like him to do a 12 hour shift on a busy ward, with sick people needing more than just the hourly walk around to make sure that things are ok.
What about the patients who are in need of 15 minute observations. Patients with poor mobility who take more than 30 seconds to get to the toilet and needs assistance every step of the way. What about the drug rounds? Then multiply that by 30 pateints for 2 staff nurses (some with little experiance) If 1 patient is really ill thats 1 nurse down so 30 patients beeing looked after by 1 nurse, and maybe 1 or 2 HCA.

Why does he not discuss the staffing issues, which most wards have the mountains of paper work which each and every nurse has to get through every shift which takes away from the care of patients.
Most nurses I know stay behind to finish paperwork, turn into work when they or their family is not well, go without breaks, work 12hours a shift, do extra shifts and Given up our measily 3% payrise over 3 years.

He's just making a lot of noise saying we should do things we already do in order that the public think we're not doing them and we lose support?

LeQueen it's all funded differently though. Presumably, your friend had private health insurance. What about the people who can't afford that? I think their experiences are probably more akin to ours in the UK.

I was visiting a seriously ill student in a teaching hospital before Xmas. In the first few minutes, in one bay, I saw:

An extremely ill, disorientated, elderly woman vomiting all over herself. I had to step in and help her myself in the first instance, as there were no nurses around at all.

Another elderly lady with dementia miming the action of feeding herself and not remembering she had to put food on her fork. The assistant simply took her tray away with the food untouched until we demanded they brought it back and that someone should help her eat.

My student had also had her care mismanaged and was undernourished to the point of potential organ failure.

This is all completely typical of the things I see every time I go into a hospital, and has been for a long time.

but the divide is worst when you have senior HCAs on who consider themselves (and say it regularly) to do everything that nurses do except drugs. What they mean is they can cannulate and take blood and a few other skills but they do not see things the way trained nurses do, no way. They can be the worst at taking any orders whatsoever from nurses and are the ones who will say no I'm doing my x,y or z, at least lower grade HCAs will. The intermediate person doesnt seem to work as well as one trained person being responsible for the whole care and delegating as and when.

Of course HCAs need to get on with it a little bit but they're becomming quite separate from the nurses. Some wards even have completely separate HCA handovers (given by HCAs to HCAs) and nurse handovers which the HCAs don't sit in on.. but TBH not that much point in HCAs sitting in on some nurse handovers because a lot of nurses do not know enough about their patients mobility and basic needs to properly hand that over

The care is too fragmented. These vital aspects of care need to be intergrated properly. Nursing isn't about doling out drugs or organising scans or doing endless paperwork. It's far too beaucratic. It's the smaller aspects that are vital and need trained attention. Feeding, fluids, analgesia, obs, measuring urine output, keeping a general eye on people. This is what nursing is. Everyone has forgotten this and managers have hijacked the role to make nurses see to things that drs were doing 20 years ago This has left a gaping hole which is why people are starving and being mismanaged on wards.

Reduce nobody wants to see to the mundane things anymore. Some HCA do pretend to be nurses and think it's above them to do bedbaths and mop up vomit. There should never be seperate handovers, I'm shocked at that. We talked about all aspects of the patient's care when we were handed over - tests, drugs, mobility, baths etc. the whole lot. Again, not enough time to attend to detail. Nursing is supposed to be holistic. It was when I trained. We had it banged into us, holistic care, holistic care, holistic care.

But boffinmum do you believe the nhs is failing because

a) nurses are predominantly lazy and uncaring
b) there are systemic flaws in the nhs. Poor funding, low staff numbers etc

if a then there must be a strange genetic or personality trait that tends lazy and uncaring people into nursing

if b then society as a whole, including you and i, need to change our culture.

Hiddenhome I agree this is part of the problem. Care seems to be reverting to a task orientated style, not holistic at all.

I would define nursing as doing for patients that which they are unable to do for themselves.

I think appalling staffing levels have allowed compassion fatigue to grow.

It's the same in some tough schools, where people moan in the staff room and count the days until the holidays. They all have the capability to teach well, and know what to do, but the system has knocked the stuffing out of them.

Task orientated without the actual tasks being completed somebody else will do it culture.

That is exactly what nursing is BoffinMum and there should be pride in doing that, but there doesn't seem to be anymore. It's been devalued and hijacked and bears no resemblance to the nursing that I was taught to do I don't know when or how it all happened, but it has and now we're seeing the tragic results of elderly people lying in their own urine and people starving and dehydrating.

also on some wards the senior HCAs write the basic care section of the nursing notes at the end of the shift and the nurses write the more medical stuff. One person isn't overlooking anyones full picture when are these things cross referenced? It is dangerous to not be able to take everything into account.

When HCAs do the obs they don't report back then back to the nurse unless the HCA deems them to need attention. But the thing is that an individual may be deteriorating in a way that the MEWS score doesn't reflect. And nurses rarely go around and clock all the obs charts after the HCA has gone around and done them they take the HCAs word for it that they all fine

Well then it is a systemic problem and not a natural tendency for all nurses to be lazy and uncaring

good glad we have cleared up that nonsense

now how do we change the System?

not voting a right wing government might help. one that values individual over society. one that wants to make a business out of that which should represent the very values people moan about it lacking

to some extent i think people have made their bed.....

Reduce that should never be allowed. They aren't trained and there should be somebody overlooking the full picture. That's dangerous. I agree about the obs. This is what I mean about somebody to bridge the gap. I still think they need to re-examine the SEN role. When I was training, SENs were desperate to become RGNs, but they should have been encouraged and rewarded for valuing their role as SENs and they weren't. This is sad, this is what's missing. They received a good education and training and were valuable members of the team. Some of the best nurses I've come across were SENs.

boglach nursing has been destroyed by the previous government though I was nursing under the Tories, and although I hated them, it's all gone downhill since 1997.

New Labour were just as right wing as the Tories tbh.

Nursing was forced to advance to secure itself as a profession

when living costs and capitalist competition meant low paid vocational jobs excluded you from the housing market and keeping up with the joneses

when greed and competition reduce, vocation, motherhood, voluntary work, caring etc will be valued over attainment of wealth

then there might be more money for the nhs

But we're living in a capitalist paradise boglach, nobody is going to want to give that up I don't think people are ever going to value mopping up vomit or feeding a demented old person My HCAs are on minimum wage for example.

Oh and what about cameron's big society

Some of you that are so concerned could volunteer in your spare time, to feed patients for example?

no?

Nursing has failed to define and defend itself and it's left itself wide open for this to have happened. The NMC and the RCN are jokes. The NMC isn't even being run properly. It was identified as a failing organisation a couple of years ago. The RCN are pathetic as well and I'm a member

If I get struck off for saying that I will get a job in Aldi

I see no one wants to volunteer for the big society

Any more elderly people to feed and I'd go pop! I did take ds1 into work with me and he helped give out cups of tea. He really enjoyed it. He was scared of them before we went in, but at the end of the shift, he was chatting away quite happily and they didn't eat him for breakfast

Hiddenhome that is a lovely story

you sound like a lovely caring nurse. i do sometimes miss it

Yes the RCN are a joke.

I resigned as a member when RCN voted to freeze nursing wages but then defended the increase in their membership fees as being due to inflation

So they basically sold their members out financially but still wanted have more in their money pot.

When I called to register my complaint the woman I spoke to said they had had a lot of angry calls about this issue but they still stuck to this course of action.

The bastards.