to think that an autistic nine year old really doesn't need wine with his dinner....

[Flanelle]

... just to "make him feel included" and, because "they give children wine on the continent and it shatters the 'mystique of wine'". As far as I know, dont they give well-watered wine, which STBXH did not do, and do they really give it to very immature under tens with special needs?

I've tried to already Fanjo. Because I don't know what age is considered young by people who do think that wine is ok for kids - and because my son's special needs make him a very young 9 indeed.

Ohhh! Sorry. Missed that. Quite agree with you in that case.

I see Flanelle, I wasn't having a go, I just wondered what your reasoning is and thought it might help if people knew the reason rather than jumping in and flaming you (it prob won't though, you know what AIBU is like). My DD has autism and is far younger than her years too.

No probs Fanjo. And I don't really know if it's relevant - though I feel it is - but didn't want to drip feed!

don't you just put their drink in a wine glass if they need to feel "included" or any nice looking proper glass.

I know exactly where you are coming from, I'm having simelar ex issues myself at the moment!

But I wouldn't worry too much about a taste being given on special occasions, but if they are doing it for every meal so that he doesn't feel left out then they are talking shite. It's completely unneccesary.

Unfortunately, I have no idea what to advise you to do about it.

That's what I think too - or just some lemonade or something.

AMF - I'm going to sort it! Cos I can.

Well as someone who was given small amounts if wine with Sunday lunch, Christmas dinner and so on from a young age, and was allowed to drink smallish amounts at family parties way before my 18th; and now drinks way too much, I don't buy into the mystique-busting thing.

I got quite (discreetly) pissy actually when dp gave ds the teensiest glass of Muscat on New Years day (at a family dinner). In part actually because it was a sweet (and delicious) dessert wine - akin to an alcopop (although naicer of course) and therefore far too palatable to an 11yo. It seemed too likely to give him a taste for booze - which is exactly what alcopops were designed to do.

I have an idea though that mine and my friends' DCs might be less enamoured of booze than we were because they complain mightily about how tiresome we are at get togethers when we start on the vino (DCs are 11+).

For personal experience, I am continental, and I was allowed a tiny bit of wine from 12!
That would be less than 1 cm in the glass, though.

I think my parents have revised it, though, and there was mention of 18 the other day with grandchildren.

I let DS (6) taste wine the other day. Just the tip of the tongue, to show how horrid it was. :)
He agreed with me.

We have all had a healthy relationship with alcohol in my family, so I agree that parent's attitudes are important.

On the feeling included, in NYE I got the LOs some special champagne (similar bottle, but fizzy apple juice).
I'm sure there's non-alcoholic wine somewhere, not to mention beer.
Here: www.alcoholfree.co.uk/

Lots of ways to feel included without actually giving alcohol.

I would say if you're not comfortable with ANY 9yo having wine, then the autism isn't relevant. If he was perhaps 16yo and younger than his years, where many parents would't have a problem with them having a small glass of wine with a meal at that age, then yes, it's more relevant.

But unfortunately, he is his parent as well. If it's just a cm in a glass (and do you even know if he drank it all or not?), and only on a special occasion, it's probably not doing him any harm. I would say rather than kicking off with your STBXH, which will probably push him into being defensive and planting his feet over it, it might be a better option to ask him to either water it down (with water or lemonade) or give him something that LOOKS like wine but is not (like schloer or fizzy juice or something).

You don't really say anything about your STBXH's level of consumption of alcohol at this point, so can't really equate it to making his son his "drinking buddy" or anything like that.

Much as I wouldn't be thrilled about it, in the long run, I think it's a matter of choosing your battles, as long as it's simply something done for a special occasion, rather than regularly.

I think it's important that I don't kick off too Triggles - and I think I can do it calmly and assertively, because I've ordered my thoughts and taken some advice.

I do know that ds drank it, and he's been asking for more too. It all feels really wrong. I don't think he's dh's 'drinking buddy' - yet - and I also don't think that dh is currently drinking heavily - but he's been an alcoholic since the age of around 14, and I think his relationship with alcohol is skewed even when he's in a period of controlling his consumption.

The autism thing is understandable to me. We have to be careful with DS because if you do something once it therefore becomes a ritual / part of routine and he would expect wine with dinner every day or even with every meal We can't reason with him. He is much younger though.

I understand, Flanelle. I didn't mean "drinking buddy" in a sarcastic way, btw.

Perhaps you could allow him to have some type of fizzy juice drink with his meal in a wine glass at home that he will enjoy, and then when he goes to his dad's for the weekend, send along a bottle of the juice with him. Hand it to your DS in front of your STBXH, so he knows he's bringing it, and say "I know how much you like this with your dinner, so I bought an extra bottle for you to bring to your dad's for the weekend." Neatly sidestepped.

No, I didn't sense sarcasm at all - but one or two other people mentioned it too and I actually take it very seriously as a possibility - later on if not now.

That's a good idea about porting the fizz!

Thanks again x

Sadly your son's autism is VERY relevant. His Dad's behavor increases the risk of your son turning to alcohol as an antidote to the social anxiety associated with being on the spectrum as an adult. Autsics learn social behavor by rote, Temple Grandin talks well about this and the impact good home role models can have.

Autistics are more dependent on role models for sociial development than most children and NEED good ones. Example setting by the adults around them is CRITICAL to a good outcome long term. Risk factors for alcoholism include family history and depression. It's not Ok for your hubby to increase the risks to your child of becoming alcohol dependent himself as an adult.

I also have an asd child whose asd Dad turned to liquor as a "solution" for a years, following a similar eaxample (ie given drink young at family events). Oddly enough now he's sorted himself out he's the most vocal proponent of my lad being taught alcohol cariies big risks and that an excess is BAD, as is any kind of dependency you could ever imagine. (Obviously the explanations of the dangers of drink are age/ability appropriate). Basically he wants the best for hs kid and that means not repeating Dad's mistakes.

Liquor was a key factor in our split (ds never exposed as I was pregnant at the time). The ex recognises this and I'm so thankful he's now sorted hmself out and supports me in not wanting our son to fall victim to the same trap ever. Alcoholism is horrible and destroys families, as well as individuals.

If you were to go for supervised visitation with your ex only the courts, health and social servces would support you whole heartedly. These kids have enough hurdles to overcome anyway without Daddy screwng things up for them.

Didn't mean to give you my lfe history but just wanted to say you are not being unreasonable. A quick chat with a famly therapist with expertise in both autism and alcoholism would very quckly verify this.

I have an ASD 13 year old. She has had the odd taste of alcohol (a sip from MY glass), but I wouldn't give her any of her own. Reason being that she is hyper enough without adding any booze into the mix.

But then I don't give her any fizzy juice either or anything with additives. 7up or Sprite is a HUGE treat to her :o

Agree with Bochead?s post, and also that quite simply, if you have a brain that neurologically is developing differently and we don?t know too much about how, or why some neurological outcomes (good and bad) happen to ASD people, is it clever to add unnecessary things that may screw with natural development early?

Risk factors for alcoholism include family history and depression and depression is high incidence for people with ASD.

They don't give a 9 y/o wine on the Continent! It goes with puberty usually, and small glasses.

My mum used to give me and my twin sister a tiny little wine glass with our dinner when we were about 8 onwards (she was quite liberal). Kind of backfired when I was asked in school (in grade 3)what my favourite drink was and I said Lindemans Chardonnay and they just about called social services on my mum! She wasnt an alchoholic though so it's a bit different!

We live 'on the continent' in Germany and I don't know of a single parent who would give any alcohol to a 9 yo, whether autistic or not. It would be regarded as tantamount to child neglect. We've just been talking about this to DD1 (13) and agreed that she will be allowed 1 cm wine in water when she turns 14, and that with a meal only once a week.

I have offered small amounts of watered down wine at Sunday lunch to my children.
I can't remember what age my ds1 was. But dd is 9 1/2 and has had some champagne and a snowball at Christmas eve. Ds1 was probably a 11 or so.

I think having a small drink when adults do is fine if the adults drink sensibly. My dc have never seen my drunk and have only seen dh a bit squiffy twice. We drink when eating and at the dinner table.
Ds1 is 18 and is very relaxed about alcohol, drinks a bit but has only been drunk twice and then just a bit stupid and giggly, not hammered and throwing up.

I think the way dc see their parents and adults around them using alcohol, and the circumstances in which it is offered, is way more relevant than the age at which they are offered.

Ds2 would never be offered alcohol not least because he refuses any drinks at all except water and sprite.