to hate when people use the word “them“ instead of “those“?

[partytights]

?i live them shoes?.

Bo. You love THOSE shoes.

I agree - poor grammar makes people look very stupid when they're (usually) not.

Really Jasper? I think judging people on poor grammar makes someone look stupider.

yellowraincoat so you'd be happy for your child to be told grammar doesn't matter, by their teacher?

What matters is how you behave towards someone who uses poor grammar. I wouldn't pull someone up socially about this, but would never pretend it's anything other than a disadvantage in life.

ElaineReese -- When exH was doing law 'their' was pushed on the students as 'clear English' which was preferable to the old fashioned 'his' or the clunky 'his or hers'. When I heard about it I gnashed my teeth.

Yeah, it's just wrong. Each child, or the reader, is singular, so 'their' cannot possibly be right!

I don't have a child, but if I did, I'd be happier if they weren't judgemental than if they knew perfect grammer.

Oh and "their" to mean "his or hers" is totally fine.

"It just sounds so wrong" is not really how grammar works.

I disagree -- I think it is how we know what is correct and what is not when it comes to grammar. Forming a template is an important part of how we learn language. Children absorb the rules as well as the vocabulary. (That is how DD1 ended up thinking one piece of clothing was 'a clo' and two or more were 'clothes'.)

But "their" in place of "his/her" is correct. In academic/formal writing, maybe not, but enough people use it that it has become correct. Absolutely everyone knows what you mean when you use it, therefore it is correct. That is how languages change and evolve. Otherwise, forsooth, we should all presumeth to talketh in this manner, good gentlewomen.

I always wonder if speakers of other languages are as blasé about their grammar, or it's just English speakers...

I mean when people write, for example, 'your' instead of 'you're' - it's the wrong word. It renders the sentence incorrect. 'Your' and 'you're' sound pretty much the same, but 'your' and 'you are' mean totally different things [/states bleeding obvious].

I always think that, if nothing else, it must be really frustrating for non-English speakers when they read nonsense sentences with incorrect words in them, figuring out what the writer is actually trying to say. It's easier for English speakers as they can automatically see the mistake and work out what is being meant. No big deal in the grand scheme of things. But for non-English speakers it must really slow them down, especially when they're learning the language.

I would say it's a sturdy indefensible rather than 'correct'.

As a speaker of Irish (but not as my first language), I think I can say that English speakers tend to have more of a tendency to run roughshod over grammar and even to use the wrong word (draw instead of drawer/you're-your, their-there-they're). I wonder is the persistence of strong local accents to blame?

It isn't correct. People may know what you mean, and it might even become acceptable, but it is actually wrong.

Agreed.

It's horribly un-PC to say that, though. Being a grammar pedant is the final taboo. On MN, at least.

I had to give up on another thread because someone who claimed to be a lecturer on an English degree course maintained that grammar was unimportant.

Having said that, I still live close to my birthplace and often lapse into the colloquial. Without thinking I could quite easily say: " I love they shoes. "

It's interesting, I find context makes all the difference.
In casual speech (particularly when delivered with appropriate regional accent), "Ah'd love a pair o' them shoes" doesn't bother me in the slightest.
In formal or formalish speech it does grate - "We will be happy to refund the price on them shoes if you bring them back within 20 days".
In formal writing it makes me fume - "In compliance with the above contract and it's associated documentation we would of obtained a signature from the payment authoriser.."

However, if used in casual speech and not used with the appropriate regional accent it can be embarrassing, at a leval akin to watching your parents at a rave. Upper class kids saying "bredren" is a case in point...

"level"! "level!" I can spell, really really...

LeQueen

" ..damp copy of Wuthering Heights .."

You do realise that you have quite ruined my capacity for work this afternoon? I'm tormented by visions of a windswept and rain-soaked Heathcliff...