To talk to FIL about his racist views

[lizardqueenie]

First AIBU or maybe its more of a WWYD and feel this could be a baptism of fire but here goes...

I am mixed race, dad is Black Jamaican, mum is White English & married to DH who is White English, and we have our 1 DD. Historically my parents families are both quite mixed, with my Dad's Nan being Indian, and some members of my mothers family are Irish. I live in a predominately white area and lived in this area when growing up and suffered a hell of a lot of racist abuse at school.

There have been a few comments made in the past by my SIL but also by my FIL. A few months ago he came to our home and told a racist joke about Indian people. I was in and out of the room with newborn DD at the time so I didn't say something to him about it. after a long conversation between DH and I DH said he would talk to him about it. After he talked to him he said that his Dad was very sorry and it wouldn't happen again. Although his Dad never mentioned this to me, but due to the way DH was about it I wasn't 100% sure if a conversation actually took place. Perviously my FIL has also made comments about "its not your dads fault he's black" which Ive never known how to deal with because the racism I've dealt with has always been quite aggressive or if I have had to deal with comments from my mums family (oh yes they have said things too) I've known them well enough to know how to handle it.

We spent this Xmas Day at IL's, FIL had been to the pub pre christmas dinner - actually with my Jamaican dad. Over lunch he spouted crap about Jewish boys living in North London, then Indians in Southall, saying who he did and didn't get on with. He was basically working his way around the UK talking about different areas and different nationalities. I was waiting for him to get around to Brixton but it didn't happen. He then started spouting about Gay men. at the time I was feeding DD her dinner, Just felt myself getting more and more tense and waiting for him to say something else. I just felt I was going to explode, but I didn't, I left the room and then came back. I didnt say anything/ pull him up about it. And now I feel absolutely awful. I feel like a bloody sell out and a coward. I felt that I couldn't say something at the time as I would just explode but now I feel that I do need to talk to him about this. It is not acceptable to say the things that he has said, not just because of my background but I do not want him saying things like this in front of my DD. I have thought long and hard about what it would be like when I had my own child, given the shit that I went through as a kid, and of course it will be appropriate to tell her about other peoples views and where they come from but I hoped that her Grandparents home would be a place where this wouldn't be an issue.

This is really eating at me and DH and I have had rows about it, he's saying he'll talk to his dad if I want, but its not really about that, surely he can see its not right. I feel he isn't being supportive enough and thats actually making me feel quite left out and like Im the one with the problem. So I am wondering if i should just talk to him about it myself?

if it is more than just an old person getting the terminologu wrong adn using the "wrong " words then I owuld tell DH that unless it stops you wil lsay something. I it si very rude to you, never mind the fact that the views are pretty unacceptable. My 87 yr old StepD has said "coloured" and then corrected himself, top say black, I don't mind that as he lives in rural norfolk and genuinely is not sure what is an innoffesive decriptor, but to actaully list all different races etc like this is crap nad you need to get it stoped.

I think you do need to just immediately pipe up when he next says something. Your DH clearly isn't going to do it for you. It is easier to tackle one comment at a time than making a huge confrontation about everything he says.

I backup the one comment at a time approach from Eglu. Hopefully, eventually he will stop if he knows that his comments will just stop the conversation dead. Your DD will get to see you assert your values.

Thanks for posts so far. I just called him and told him. Told him all of the shit i put up with at school and how i didn't want to hear those views and I didn't want them around my daughter. I think he was shocked that i stood up to him and spoke about it - Dh's family talk about naff all & everything gets swept under the carpet so probably quite a surprise. Told him I would have rather talked about it face to face but didn't know when I would see him next. He said he was sorry but I think still in a very shocked sort of way, i do wonder if he will say something else about it when i net see him or say something to DH. I am shaking so much and my D mum is on her way around to give me a hug. Before calling him i was on the phone to her in floods of tears telling her how shit it was making me feel. I think its because when you have dealt with comments like that before, especially in your childhood, you would never ever want your own children to hear that. thats what made me feel so sad, like if i didn't say something i wasn't sticking up for my daughter iyswim.

How much do you want to bet that your FIL will say that he is not a racist and that you are just being paranoid?
You have nothing to lose by talking to him about it, but I would not call him a racist directly. Talk about how YOU feel when these comments are made and your past experience of racism rather than accusing him. I think it will be better this way rather than react next time he says something out of line because, if you are anything like me, you might just snap and say things in a non diplomatic way. Best of luck, he sounds like a knob.

x post. glad you had the balls to face up to him, sorry you feel so bad.

You should definitely have a word.

It is probably a good thing that you didn't say anything on Xmas day as it would probably have turned into a row given that he had had a few drinks.

Since your DH doesn't sound like he wants to say anything, then you should have a calm, civil conversation with your ILs, and explain that although they may have their own views you do not wish for your DC (or you) to be subjected to them. Explain how you felt as a kid and that even though they probably think their comments are harmless you find them hurtful.

Don't stand for it, no one should have to. IME it is often a case of having to educate people; DH is from a small place in Cumbria where most people have only heard of non-white people but not actually met any and you do hear some pretty weird things, but a lot of it is said without malice, they just don't realise they are being hurtful because no one ever told them.

I hope this is what you are up against (ignorance rather than real racism), good luck in any case!

crossed threads!

Well done for talking to him, you did the right thing!

hug

Good for you OP.

I can't believe he was shocked. How weird. Well you've told him now, he can;t say he hasn't been told so if he ever does/says anything again just get up and walk out.

I really admire you. It's hard to face up to people like you just did. Be proud of yourself.

I think you did the right thing in confronting him, OP. A lot of racist, bigoted attitudes are dismissed as "being of a time", meaning that if you're old you can be offensive. That's not acceptable. They live in the same world and time as us so good for you. I'm sorry you feel so shaken. The anxiety will pass and you'll feel proud of doing the right thing by you and your children (and society in general).

Well done lizard. I'm in a similar-ish position and it has taken years to build up to making a small protest about the horrible remarks. I find myself reeling from them for days afterwards. But like AdverseCamber I'm happy not to see my ILs for as long as possible, mainly due to their Daily HateMail perspective, but other issues too, so it's a bit different. Well done, anyway - that was admirable.

Is he being offensive with his comments or just generalising about areas and races/religions?

There are pockets in North London with a high Jewish population. There are also pockets in London that are predominantly Asian, black, Irish. Was he just commenting on that or taking it further?

Thanks for the support and hugs. You know what it's like you post something like this and you don't know what kind of response you are getting to get, but I'm very pleased that I spoke to him if still a little shakey after my mum coming over and making me a hot chocolate. Dh is out this evening and I think that was probably the best time to do it.

dialm yes I told him how what he had said made me feel, I didn't use the word racist at all in the conversation but I was just trying to get across how I felt his comments were unacceptable.
caffine I didn't think Xmas day at the dinner table was appropriate either, and I think then it could have just turned into a big argument . I think this way has hopefully been more constructive

villa & camber I'm really sorry you are having to put up with this kind of crap too. I would choose not to see my in-laws really, they are quite negative people in themselves, not massively social or fun but I just go see when because I have do/ visit with dd.

totem unfortunately there was a lot of negative comment attached to what he said, rather than just saying xyz area is highly populated with people from xyz group it was all about "those" people and a real looks/ sound of disgust. Basically going through groups that was non white/ heterosexual and putting them down.

My mum came over gave me a massive hug & said how proud she was, and I feel proud for sticking up for myself &dd and not feeling like I've let myself down. She was surprised that fil wasn't more appoologetic, I mean, he said sorry and I am not trying to squeeze more of an apology out of him, but it was just sorry, nothing more nothing less, nothing about offending me, or my family or anything deeper/ more explanatory., nothing about it being a stupid comment. But thats that I guess, my conscience is clear and hopefully I'll sleep better tonight. And I know that at least I have made a stand, and I'll have some good grounding if it ever were to happen again.
Thanks again everyone, love mumsnet as a sounding board for this stuff.

Well done lizard! You did absolutely the right thing - for you but also for your dd. I am a gay mum of two children - one of them mixed race - and it does force you to become more radical, I think. I simply will not allow my dc to have to listen to nonsense that I would probably put up with for myself. Your children need to see you standing up tall and proud against this nonsense, and your DH needs to get his head round this and start supporting you and your daughter.

Good for you! I am TTC number 1 but this is something I think about for the future. My FIL says some bloody ridiculous things, he is very narrow-minded, right wing and verges on racism/bigotry at times. I think I will be in your position in a few years and hope I can be as strong as you!

Well done lizard, I am sorry that you have been so upset. It must be so hurtful and remind you of what you had to go through as a child.

Tbh I think you did the best thing, if you had said anything on the day it may well have turned out badly, what with you being so upset. I think a couple of days later on the phone is best, hopefully he can now dwell on your words.

Your posts on here are very articulate, so I am sure you phrased it in a good and non-combative way. Bloody hell though, that you have to point such things out.

I hope what you have said will make your FIL think.

Your FIL sounds a bit of a twit TBH, making comments like that as you are 'obviously' mixed race.

You were right to make your feelings clear.

Well done, you!
I hope FIL's response was so terse because he was too surprised to say more, and that he will think about what you've said. Probably no one has ever had the courage or sense to talk to him like that before.

Sorry your FIL is such a dick head. But if I were you I'd feel the real problem was my husband- he needs to support you and any children you might have as the racial abuse is going to filter to them as well.

But next time say something to FIL- he isn't just abusing you- he's abusing his grandchild by repeating shit like that in front of her. She shouldn't grow up considering her heritage on your side as less because FIL has made her feel so.

what an idiot saying that your fil should know better my dad is a lovely man but a complete bigot and its embarassing , good job me and my sister didnt follow after him , I used to tut alot when i was at home , some older people are like that and im unsure if there is anything you can do , i dont even think your fil realised what he was saying ,

I don't really think it's acceptable to assume it's a generation thing. There have always been people who are racist and people who aren't. Now and 100 years ago. Some people get it- some people don't.

I actually find it more bizarre when older people are severely racist as most of the people I have met grew up in totally white areas and I can't imagine where they get their ideas about people

well done should never have been acceptable and is not anymore and you have to protect your daughter from this

you may not change his ways but it gives him something to think about and hopefully he will.

Well done OP. you've set the scene so I would now suggest zero Tolerance for any racist or homophobic comment. Otherwise you are going to get racism creeping back in. Let's hope your DC have a better experience than you (and I) did.