To talk to FIL about his racist views

[lizardqueenie]

First AIBU or maybe its more of a WWYD and feel this could be a baptism of fire but here goes...

I am mixed race, dad is Black Jamaican, mum is White English & married to DH who is White English, and we have our 1 DD. Historically my parents families are both quite mixed, with my Dad's Nan being Indian, and some members of my mothers family are Irish. I live in a predominately white area and lived in this area when growing up and suffered a hell of a lot of racist abuse at school.

There have been a few comments made in the past by my SIL but also by my FIL. A few months ago he came to our home and told a racist joke about Indian people. I was in and out of the room with newborn DD at the time so I didn't say something to him about it. after a long conversation between DH and I DH said he would talk to him about it. After he talked to him he said that his Dad was very sorry and it wouldn't happen again. Although his Dad never mentioned this to me, but due to the way DH was about it I wasn't 100% sure if a conversation actually took place. Perviously my FIL has also made comments about "its not your dads fault he's black" which Ive never known how to deal with because the racism I've dealt with has always been quite aggressive or if I have had to deal with comments from my mums family (oh yes they have said things too) I've known them well enough to know how to handle it.

We spent this Xmas Day at IL's, FIL had been to the pub pre christmas dinner - actually with my Jamaican dad. Over lunch he spouted crap about Jewish boys living in North London, then Indians in Southall, saying who he did and didn't get on with. He was basically working his way around the UK talking about different areas and different nationalities. I was waiting for him to get around to Brixton but it didn't happen. He then started spouting about Gay men. at the time I was feeding DD her dinner, Just felt myself getting more and more tense and waiting for him to say something else. I just felt I was going to explode, but I didn't, I left the room and then came back. I didnt say anything/ pull him up about it. And now I feel absolutely awful. I feel like a bloody sell out and a coward. I felt that I couldn't say something at the time as I would just explode but now I feel that I do need to talk to him about this. It is not acceptable to say the things that he has said, not just because of my background but I do not want him saying things like this in front of my DD. I have thought long and hard about what it would be like when I had my own child, given the shit that I went through as a kid, and of course it will be appropriate to tell her about other peoples views and where they come from but I hoped that her Grandparents home would be a place where this wouldn't be an issue.

This is really eating at me and DH and I have had rows about it, he's saying he'll talk to his dad if I want, but its not really about that, surely he can see its not right. I feel he isn't being supportive enough and thats actually making me feel quite left out and like Im the one with the problem. So I am wondering if i should just talk to him about it myself?

Well done OP - I'm really impressed that you phoned him!

I wish I had the strength to stand up to my ILs like that.

I'm going to think of you next time I need to. And then just do it.

I agree with Helen, you need to take a zero tolerance approach to it now.

I typed a really long reply and then lost it because I am an idiot.

It boiled down to this - I challenged my FIL and now he thinks much harder about what he is saying rather than trotting out words like Paki.

I recently challenged a close friend and it has improved her attitude to but more work is to be done there.

The only way we can eradicate ignorance is by educating and that is what you did. Your DD will be extremely proud of you.

It is his grandaughter that he is being derogatory to ultimately & hopefully your chat will make him think about how he expresses himself. I do think it is hard in terms of words for older people, where once you had to say coloured, now it's black or African American etc.

Thanks again for everyone's comments.

I totally agree with those of you who have said the real challenge will be getting DH's head around all of this. I think that his reaction, or lack of it, was really making me feel worse, so I feel better that I've taken the bull by the horns myself rather than waiting around for him to say something which may/ may not have been pitched right.

Get0of hmm not sure about being articulate :)- i think I sounded like a gibbering wreck on the phone, i was just shaking the whole time and at one point told myself to shut up to hear what he had to say.

Helen yes i think now I have set my stall out, it should, you would hope prevent him from making other comments in front of us. I don't think its realistic to think that me pulling him up will actually change his views, but i hope that it changes his behaviour in front of us and it does set a good basis for zero tolerance in the future. My mum said last night that now I have told him, I should get up and leave with DD if comments are made in the future. I think this is something that I need to put to DH. I really don't think he has any idea of how upset it was.

shrikingnora i bloody hate it when that happens!Good on you for challenging your FIL and your friend.

redhelen yes I do see what you mean, but think that it is one thing to refer to someone as coloured because you don't know what other word to use (even older members of my dads family do this which confuses me no end) and a completely different thing to actually make pointed negative comments about people on the basis of their race/ religion or whatever other difference they have to you. I would say that both things are unacceptable, it is now more acceptable to call someone black rather than coloured or African American is they are a black person born in the US. However one may be a confusion over terminology, particularly for someone who is much older whereas the other is intended to be derogatory.

I still haven't told DH that I spoke to his dad. He was out late last night and left for work really early this morning. Any advice there? The only thing that keeps going around my head is grow a pair, but i don't think thats the most constructive way to start the conversation!

Start by saying that the situation csn't continue. Call it 'the situation', not 'what you're doing' because then he will not feel attacked. And tell him you feel hurt and what with the new year and all you are keen to start as you mean to go on. Draw a line under all previous and have zero tolerance of all in the future.

He sounds just like MY Father in Law - even worse, one of my FIL's best friends is.......black! I just don't get it.

I doubt very much he would consider himself racist - indeed he actually gets on with everyone he meets regardless of colour, creed or political persuasion. You would NEVER guess it to hear him in his more "loose" moments though.

lizard I think you've done really well so far ... I must have had a sheltered early life, because I didn't encounter/hear any racist views expressed until, at the age of 40, I worked in a comprehensive school in leafiest Hertfordshire not even 30 miles north east of London.

I was gobsmacked to actually hear the disgusting words and 'views' coming out of the mouths of young people, especially aged 15 - 18. Some of what they came out with was really venemous and sent cold shivers up my spine.

The area was known as 'white flight' ie white man van would tend to move out of London and dominated this 'pleasant' market town. I was verbally abused in the street twice by parents of Year 10 & 11 kids whom I suspended for blatant racist abuse of a Zimbabwean teacher in my Department. He was an amazing guy, really resilient and grounded, but received sly and obnoxious comments from quite a few of the staff, some of them long-established, who thought they could get away with it, ranging from barbed comments such as 'Why are you here?' to 'How come you are so well-educated if you went to school in Africa ?' ...

Once I realised how entrenched this racism was, across the staffroom demographic, widespread among parents and passed onto their kids, I looked for another job. At interview with my current Head, who happens to be dual heritage himself, although that's beside the point, I explained what I had experienced as the main reason why I was seeking to leave after only one year. Luckily he understood, and I've worked happily for him since (8 years now). I am still saddened and disgusted that racist views are voiced by parents and seemingly encouraged in their kids. It took this experience of actually hearing it to believe that it still happens. Also, nobody can truly understand how it feels unless they are the recipient of the abuse.

I think your DH is probably upset for you and your DC, and doesn't know where to go with the issue. It is so difficult to try to change such entrenched attitudes as his father's.

I don't know what the answer is, but retain your dignity as you clearly have done and, as my colleague used to say: 'Aluta continua' ! :)

Well done, OP. I am such a coward that I couldn't have done this, but you did the right thing. So often bigots like that think they can carrying on with this kind of stuff because they don't get called up on it. Give yourself a huge pat on the back.

Well done! It's a matter of explaining to him, repeatedly of you have too, that while he may be entitled to his opinions (as everyone is), you will not expose your DC to negative remarks about her background and you don't want to listen to it yourself, either. So he can just learn to mind his manners.

Well done OP, it's hard to do what you have done.

Might it be that his being shocked means that he cares about you and just had not realized that he was upsetting you with his idiocy?

Really pleased you stood up to him OP.

DH and I took some family out a few days before Xmas as we were spending Xmas day alone. There were 6 of us and I overheard my uncle tell DH an incredibly odious racist joke (I don't mean just using naive racist terminology which is bad enough but it was about violent racist acts. I don't want to repeat it or even allude to it any more than that. Just vile and offensive on every level) I was so unbelievable angry I think I am going to cut the uncle out of our lives, just send Xmas cards. DH didn't know what to say and for the sake of the rest of my family (some of whom I don't see very often) I didn't say anything.

Really wish I had. I will never expose my unborn child to those kinds of views.

Well done you for making the call.

My standard come back is along the lines of the racist should be greatful to the millions of Indian and Jamaicans (add in as many other nationalities as you have time for) who fought for Britain in WWII so the racist is allowed freedom of thought.

OP,you definitely did the right thing. If you had not pulled up you FIL on his racist views and he continued to air these views in front of your dd, this would cause problems for you as your dd may repeat these views at school. This would lead to problems for you and your husband as people would assume that you are racist yourself(despite the fact that you are mixed race) and that your child is just repeating what she had heard at home, I think that you should explain these concerns to your dh..

Thanks for your support everyone & sorry for the delay in replying - spent the whole of yesterday in bed with a migraine - nice start to 2012!

Just an update on the situation with DH. I told him the following day after i had spoken to FIL. Basically told him what happened in the conversation & how I felt. I think he was almost as shocked as FIL that I brought it up and talked to him about it.

Shrinkingnora I took your advice about it being a new year, drawing a line etc. I think thats quite important for myself as well as DH, although obviously I won't forget what his Dad has said it does mean we can see how things go from here, so that if, and i sincerely hope it doesn't, happen again I will be well within my rights to give it to him with both barrels and then leave. I think its also important that DH supports this stance and me by doing his bit to pull his dad up when I am not there. Otherwise I feel it will become a bit of a "joke" he feels he can have with DH behind my back and that would be horribly undermining.

albetcamus thank you for sharing your story, goodness that poor man and I think its unbelievable how many of those comments came from teachers, who were consider were well educated rather than ignorant.

tinkertitonk yes i guess that could have been part of the shock, it unfortuately sounded like maybe he just didn't get it or like you say hadn't realised that I would be offended (having played the conversation over in my head now a zillion times like you do).

Floss I am really sorry that happened on your Christmas day too. I think like you I was really shocked on the day, even in hindsight i am still pleased that I left it until afterwards to say something for fear of it turning into a big row. Perhaps you or your DH could have a similar conversation with your Uncle, explaining as I did that you didn't feel it appropriate to say something in front of the rest of the family & in a restaurant too.

sashh good point! Never thought of it like that before!

forehead another good point, I had never thought about it like that but thats very true, the longer that I went without saying something it would look like I was condoning what he was saying. I think albertcamus's post shows that although there has been huge improvement in schools with dealing with racism, as long as parents/ teachers are racist so will kids be so there is every possibility that this is something that my DD may encounter when she goes to school

Just want to say thanks again for everyone's comments and support on here. Sometimes you can feel quite alone as to whether you are doing the right thing and your comments & support have really got me through the last few days. I think it tough for anyone to pull their in-laws up about anything, its such a tricky relationship but the seriousness of this and how I felt basically heartbroken over my FIL's comments meant I just had to and now I am so relieved I did. i do wonder if he will tell other people about what I have said and I'll be bad-mouthed to anyone who will listen but I hope he'll just quietly think about it to himself and realise where he has gone wrong.