AIBU to think that generalising about men is totally unacceptable

[Hedgeblog]

I have recently seen a few status updates on facebook on the lines of 'arghh men, why can't my DH do what I tell him'. Also on here I have also seen similar posts that men are just useless.
AIBU to think that generalising about men in this way is totally unacceptable and should the negative stereotyping be the other way round women would be in uproar.

Worra
Totally agree with you
My dad doesn't cook at all and my mum constantly complains about it but the minute he tries she laughs and puts him down.

Makes me so cross and I have told her

we have. But you said it far better than I did.

And when some women say their Husbands cant do something, what they often mean is they don't do it the woman's way

That's quite controlling I think as everyone has different ways of doing things but some women want it done their way, or no way.

Ephiny - oh yes! poor men can't see dirt can't cook can't look after the children...

ultimate Get Out clause.

Yes they bloody can do all that! and should. This whole men can't do domestic stuff is a great big pile of bollocks designed to make sure that women do the bloody lot.

bugger that!

Yes - penises, different hormones and their brains function differently to women in certain areas (spatial awareness etc).

Men are generally faster than women when it comes to sporting competitions (i.e. men's 100m is faster than women's 100m) owing to different muscle mass, build, height.

I think the differences between men and women can be found in terms of the way that they behave and the characteristics they have. Which isn't to say all men are bastards/useless with children/can't cook/can't clean....BUT....I do think that men and women have different traits that reflect upon things such as the way they perceive children and childcare.

Perhaps I'm jaded but I've known very few men left holding the baby, as opposed to women who are left as the childcarer whilst the man walks away. For me, that's indicative of the way that women are more nurturing than men.

My mum has moved in a useless lump of man and really enjoys the superiority she feels over him. He's in his 60s and he can't cook; can't use the washing machine; can't vacuum properly; can't remember his grandchildren's names, or which of his children they belong to, or their birthdays... the list goes on.

The reason? He's a man. She honestly believes that that is a reason.

So there are more men in government, running top businesses etc than there are women, but these same men aren't capable of operating the same household appliances/performing simple tasks/recalling simple facts that my DS(13) and my DD(5) have been able to do since they were 3 or 4.

It makes some women feel better to believe that their husbands/partners are useless because it justifies the fact they enable them to be useless.

MrsTerryPratchett mine too. Amazing isn't it!!

That strikes a chord with me worra - my brother keeps telling me I'm doing everything 'wrong' by which he means I have to do it his way because it's 'man work' and he knows how. But his partner ticked him off for not washing up right and he saw how crap it felt.

Why do people feel the need to put each other down like this? It's not like with most simple tasks there is honestly much room for disagreement - either it gets done or it doesn't, and most normal men and women can do most basic tasks just fine without any of this 'oooh, he's a man, you can't expect him to cope with x, he'll mess it up' rubbish.

freckled - did you know the brain function differences are quite contentious as a topic? Just saying because it's not quite on the same level as 'all men have penises' to suggest that cognitive functioning is different.

I think people often misunderstand this one and end up thinking there are really big, 'hardwired' differences between men's brains and women's brains, which is a bit crap for all concerned.

Exactly LRD I mean there's a huge difference between showing someone there's a simpler way of doing something...and telling them they're doing it wrong.

As long as the end result is the same or similar, who cares?

Worra and FolkGirl, let's start a club! I think it's hilarious. DH can't cook (only thing he can't do and it suits me because I love to do it and he then has to wash up). Reason being, his mother couldn't. His sister can't cook either, never taught. His mother told me once that she was glad both her children married people who could cook so she could visit and eat nice food. She taught him to clean though so I am eternally grateful.

Yes, I agree worra. I keep trying to get my mum onto this one, because she insists my dad can't cook because he wants to make different things - I wish she'd just let him at it instead of ending up doing the whole lot. It's rotten for them both in the end.

I'm so glad to see this thread. Sometimes I think I am the only person on MN who likes and has sympathy for men!

They are, like women, not perfect but that's life eh.

'I do think that men and women have different traits that reflect upon things such as the way they perceive children and childcare. '

I totally disagree with you. You can't base your judgement of men on your personal experience and therefore tar ALL men with the same brush.

So what negative trait would you say women have? And is that negative trait posted on forums and facebook? I would say it's not.

hedge - I think people do generalize negatively about women in public. I've seen loads of stupid 'funny' comments on facebook along the lines of 'Sarah hit the kerb today - women drivers eh' or 'what I really need for Christmas is a woman to do the work'.

These generalizations are shite for men and women.

Perhaps I'm jaded but I've known very few men left holding the baby, as opposed to women who are left as the childcarer whilst the man walks away. For me, that's indicative of the way that women are more nurturing than men.

For me, it's indicative of "traditional" roles in society and has fuck all to do with women being more nurturing.

I agree the brain function differences thing is not straightforward at all, it does seem to me that there are certain differences in general, perhaps due to different balance of hormones etc, which might affect the different choices men and women make in general about caring role, choice of career etc. But it's complicated, and inherently intertwined with cultural/societal roles and expectations. I think the current thinking is that very little about our brains is actually 'hardwired' from birth (though I'm no neuroscientist, so don't quote me!)

But one thing's for sure - no one is incapable of doing the washing-up or keeping the house tidy or looking after their own child (or indeed driving a car or reading a map or using power tools etc) simply because of their gender! Anyone who claims that is just making excuses for their own laziness.

I guess that a perception of a negative trait of women is the fact that women talk more, gossip more and bitch more.

I'm not tarring all men with the same brush. But I do think that certain generalisations - whether positive or negative - can be made about men and women. I would hazard a guess that more men than women play Call of Duty and Grand Theft Auto. That more men than women join the army and like the idea of seeing military action. That more women than men talk about wedding dresses, bride magazine and how many children they want.

I'm certainly not making judgments on my perceptions or deeming anything to be good or bad. But I do think that refusing to acknowledge differences between men and women is simply putting one's head in the sand.

And while I'm on my soapbox

I hear a lot of women saying their DH's can't use a washing machine, can't cook a roast dinner, can't clean the house properly.

The reason they say they cant?

Because once their DH shrank some clothes, once they burnt the Sunday joint, once they broke the hoover by sucking up a coin.

Well I did all of those things when I left home and got my own place...but like anyone else I simply learnt by my mistakes.

If you have a DP who won't let you learn by them...and simply writes you off as incapable, why would you bother trying?

I think eventually you'd just agree with them and think 'yes, I'm pretty shit at house stuff'.

"My dad doesn't cook at all and my mum constantly complains about it but the minute he tries she laughs and puts him down."

My parents do this the other way round, my mum rarely drives and is not confident when she does - my dad complains or makes jokes about this (and about women's driving skills in general), but when she does get in the driving seat for some reason, he's constantly criticising and nagging and making fun of her. So no wonder she doesn't like doing it!

Seems a pretty nasty way to behave to me, either way round. I've tried speaking to him about it, but he doesn't seem to 'get' what the problem is.

LRD
Yes you're right actually. Perhaps women who negatively generalise about men get upset about men negatively generalising about women. If they do why do they keep generalising?

Well said ephiny.

I think until we have sorted out the social stereotyping, we shouldn't worry about tiny cogntive differences that seem to show up in some tests, and whether they're real or not - surely even if it were true that (for example) men were innately less good at cooking a meal, that's no reason to be telling a bloke he's useless when he tries.

Yanbu. Most of us would be pretty pissed if the reverse were written...

Am also intruiged to see the biology behind being wired differently.

Sorry, crossposted hedge. I dunno if women who generalize about men are deliberately doing it because men generalize about them - I think it's just some people don't think hard before saying nasty things, simple as that. A woman generalizing about men is being sexist and should know better; a man generalizing about woemn is being sexist and should know better. There's no winners IMO - I wish people would just stop it.

Just for the record I totally accept there are differences in men and women however, when a guy does something not exactly right in regards to child care I personally think it's unacceptable to then say Arghh MEN!