to think a selfish relative is cause of upset at home?

[LalBoggart]

I have a brother in his 50s who has never married and basically has my aging parents running round and waiting on him hand and foot. They moved out a few years back but he has them round tdaily to do work for him. They do all his cleaning, washing, ironing, shopping, and cooking, and sub him money constantly. They act as a taxi taking him to the pub and collecting him several nights each week, whatever the weather/time. He gets very aggressive if things do not meet his expectations. He has no job and massive debts. To say it's all dysfunctional is an understatement.
Me and my OH havent had a single night out, day out or weekend away in almost five years since our DS was born. When my parents visit they stay for a few hours and leave again. They use the reason that they do not live locally, though we have made space for them to stay over and they are always welcomed - I make meals, let them have the run of the house etc.
We realise that if we do not get regular kid free time (not including going to work) soon then it's curtains for our relationship. We have a screaming row at least once a day because we're stressed running round after a demanding child and neither of us sleep. We get a few hours in an evening of quiet time (when we don't row) and that's about it, but we're usually buggered. I've told my parents the bald truth that if they don't stop focussing 90% of their time on my bro and spend some time with our DS I honestly think we can't cope much more.
Does anyone else have anything similar to share? Any ideas of how we can get some help to get even a night to ourselves? We don't have a lot of money. We don't drink, we'd just like a lazy night/morning once in a blue moon. We get the feeling that everything is falling about our ears and we have nobody to help us.

The early days with a new child are really tiring and stressful. My OH and I very rarely ever have child free days and never child free nights as there is noone willing/in good enough health to have our girls for us, and we wouldn't want them out of our home anyway. What worked for us was working out the timings of things.

Accept that you won't both have a lazy lie in together any more until your DS is older.

On Sat, you get up with the DS and let your OH have a lie in. He in turn lets you go for a nap (perhaps when your DS naps) later in the day if needed.

On Sun reverse roles.

This worked for us. Things get better as far as sleep is concerned and my OH and I manage many a relaxed evening once our 2 DDs are in bed.

Telling your parents to stop running around after your brother so much and start running around after you is not the way forward though. If your parents are aging, you should both probably start running around after them.

I am sorry Lal that you are so stressed and struggling with your work/life/child care balance. I think your own issues are clouding the way you are viewing your parents problem with your brother.

There are two separate problems - your parents relationship with your brother - which you view as him taking advantage and your parents enabling his 'lifestyle' and dependence. Then you and your dh struggling to find time for each other.

It is a little rich that your concern is not that your parents get a break from your brother but that they spend time looking after your ds. Have you no other options for childcare? maybe you need to look into looking babysitters or have you friends with similar age children that you can ask? I have offered to look after a friends children so she can go out with her dh as she has no family living locally enough to help.

You will find there are many people in a similar situation, my mother lives hundreds of miles away and the in-laws though closer tend to look after dc only in daytime.

Have you never asked your parents how they feel about your brother living at home, clearly he is taking advantage but has this not worried you in the past? How do you propose to tackle it with him? How is your relationship with your brother? Could you talk to him about easing the pressure on your parents - getting him to get help with his debts, sort his own life out?

You need to try and solve your marriage problems without relying on your parents help with childcare - it may not be helpful to blame your issues on your parents not helping enough. and then you may be able to view your parents and brother's situation without muddying the waters with your own difficulties.

Good luck.

You sound to me to be tired or exhausted and secretly envious of your brothers's lifestyle, at the end of your tether you have decided your parents helping your brother mean the breakdown of your family, that just sounds incredibly bitter, take time out or confront your parents properly about how disturbing their attitude is to your brother.

I'm a little confused on your post OP.

Why are you not sleeping, if it is because your DS is not a good sleeper then it's time to get the professionals involved, speak to your GP or HV and see what support you can get.

DS is 5 and in many ways it is getting a lot easier than it was before. He loves having friends over and whilst he isn't as keen to go to friends houses, he can be persuaded.

On the babysitting option 5 years is a long time to wait for something that clearly is never going to happen. Draw a line under it and move on, at DS's school they give you a list of 6th formers that are willing to babysit.

I don't see how the breakdown of your relationship can be blamed on your parents. Sure it would be nicer if they could babysit, but a few evenings out a year are not going to repair a relationship that is fundamentally broken. I'm not saying that your's is but you need to start focusing on the 3 of you and hard though it is leave your parents to their own devices.y

I've probably not put it very well, but my parents tend to fly in and out and everything has to be dropped when they come here, and they can also be extremely horrible if you disagree on anything and they walk away without even wanting to talk (not that this has happened since before our DS was born).
This quite the opposite to how they treat my bro, which is with indulgence. I was always treated very strictly as a child and still am!

I totally understand that I do need to look up babysitting (we don't know anyone locally, all our friends live miles away and we are very quiet, not big socialisers).

Maybe I am getting the issue with my domineering bro mixed up with this - that's why I'm asking if I'm being a cow! I'm not evil ;) I've probably snapped a bit after being told again about some debt issues TBH. But I suffered as a child with him bullying me and had to leave home as soon as I could - he is much older than me and no, has no special needs, he is simply spoilt. I'm finding it hard to divorce the two issues.

I think what upsets me about this is that I try as hard as I can to please them and do stuff for them when they visit, and I'm always ready to help out. It's possibly about my expectations too, as I was more or less raised by my grandparents while my parents ran a business. And our DS is always asking after his grandparents and gets very upset when they leave abruptly as they do. That rakes your emotions up a lot.

your brother sounds like my sister although my sister is 20 years younger still a bit of a brat , anyway it isnt your parents fault you are struggiling , its unfair of you to put your relationship problems on top of them and DEMANDING they babysit , what do you think will happen when you do go out , you will talk about the baby all night thats what , I think you and your dh need to get a baby sitter if you need 1 and go out try and talk through whats going on , and stop screaming at each other It doesnt help anybody ,

you dont have a baby you have a 5 year old i misread , does your 5 year old have some additional needs that you cant get a sleep ?

One of the nice things about employing a babysitter is that there are no emotional issues involved, provided the person is a reasonably pleasant person. It can be reassuring to find another parent as you know that they are more aware of what children are like and what they need. You could ask your health visitor for advice about sitters, she may know of a local network that would welcome you.

You need to sort this thing about sleep out. You may find that the emotional temperature drops massively if you are getting some sleep. What have you tried? You could put another thread in the Sleep topic.

rookiemater - neither of us sleeps very well simply down to stress. Our son sleeps well (only at night though). I don't sleep until the ealry hours, he wakes in the early hours.

2kidsintow - my OH works shifts too, which makes this all more difficult! And we both have very mentally intensive/demanding jobs (for not much pay). Our DS is very intelligent and needs constant stimulation and I think this combo makes us feel like mental wrecks.

Our rows are all about stupid things like tidying up/being tired. Our good point is that afterwards we always sit down and talk things through after the initial blow up (and we blow up because we are so stressed and can't just think "Oh the rubbish hasn't been taken out, never mind..."). That's what drove me to ask if I was being unreasonable feeling resentful - we've nobody else handy to talk about these things.

Is your son at school yet?

How sad for your parents to have two needy kids still grasping for their time and effort. At their age!

FFS. YABU.

mrsjay - like I say it probably came out wrong as I was ranting. I don't demand they babysit, in fact I've never even asked. Though I admit I was probably wrong to react to another gambling debt story by snapping with resentment!!! I think you have all made me see that and I'm pleased I posted!!!
What annoys me is they are spending almost all of their time on someone who can help himself and I feel that if there wasn't this dysfunctional thing going on then there might be a normal family relationship to be had. I'll be honest enough to say I'm envious of anyone who has that.

Thanks for clarifying the sleep situation Lal. TBH even if your parents were willing and able to babysit, I'm not sure it would solve any of your problems.

Both you and your DH appear to have too much on your plates. If I were you I would be focussing on ways to reduce your stress situation - is there anything you can do about your job for example to make it less stressful? Can you afford to buy in any help, say a cleaner once a fortnight? If you were able to sleep properly I think a lot of what appears unbearable may be reduced to more minor irritations.

With your DS don't feel guilty about taking the easy option from time to time. At 5 he should be starting to learn to entertain himself for periods of time with lego, games and dare I say the occasional DVD or computer game is not going to kill him.

Yes your parents don't sound great and I can understand that you mourn the relationship that you don't have and resent your brother, but realistically you aren't going to change them so you would be better placed using your energy on the things that you can improve.

'ranting'
'snapping'

You need more sleep. Forget your parents and brother for the time being, you are never going to have a perfect family (and by the way, where are your DH's parents, what are they like?) Focus on your health and your sleep. I do know something about a child who's an early waker, mine did not wake in the early hours but it was early for me. it's hard as well to give up any of the time you have to yourselves in the evening by going to bed early - but that's what I'm going to recommend.

TBH I think the simplest thing you could possibly do is to start setting yourselves early bedtimes and - forgive the intrusion - have more sex. A wise MNetter has posted before that it's a lot harder to be angry with someone you have a good sex life with. Likewise if you're going to lie awake for hours before you sleep, you might as well start those hours early.

I know it seems as if the early waking will never end, but it is really common for the beginning of school to finally sort this out. Hope so, for your sake.

"What annoys me is they are spending almost all of their time on someone who can help himself"

I think you know they don't think he can, or he would have done. Goodness knows why they feel they need to help him, they are probably just fearful of the consequences if they don't.

"I feel that if there wasn't this dysfunctional thing going on then there might be a normal family relationship to be had"

Honestly, do you seriously think there's any such thing as a normal family relationship?! Your own family relations sound pretty dysfunctional, tbh.

I think you need to grow up and stop depending on your elderly mum and dad to help you. They've done their bit! In your own different way, you sound as bad as your brother.

Sort it out yourself! Sitters, childminders, friends - there are options.

Your parents have created "learned helplessness£ in your brother and by the sounds of it have done some damage to yourself. Personally speaking i wouldn't want them around my child.

You need to both learn ways of relaxing. Is your son listening to these 'blow ups', if so that would explain his behaviour. He isn't demanding because he is "so inteligent", there is something else going on that you need to be honset about, whether it is your own high standards of care/indulgence or lack of disipline/consistency.

LAL it sounds like you have loads on your plate and TBh ranting sometimes gets it all out in the open ,
I think your brother is favoured by your parents he sounds a nightmare , my sister is the same although my mum babies her and she is just a brat ,

I do think you are looking for something from your parents that they dont want give or cant see that you need them too , My mums not a very giving granny my children are alot older and used to it still hurts though , I think you are needing to get some alternative babysitting or even go out seperatley to get some space , but i am sad that your parents are like this with your familiy but sometimes we need to accept that our parents arnt always the people we want them to be

joanofarchitrave - thank you, that made me smile :D No, our DS is not at school yet - he will start in 2012.

rookiemater - yes, 'mourn' I think is the right word. My parents were always busy when I was a child but I had a wonderful granny and grandpa who I followed around like a shadow. I feel sorry that our DS has two parents who are around but always feeling stressed. I do let him watch TV and have got him some games to play etc, but feel terrible if I "leave him to it".

Why don't you pay for a babysitter?

Its ok to leave him for a little while LAL set up a dvd or something for him you dont need to amuse him every minute you are with him , dont feel guilty let it go i know you are working and busy but we cant do it all ,

Shouldn't he be in school already if he is 5? I would ignore your parents and sort something out yourself. I 5yo should not be causing you THIS much stress.

Olgaga - "fearful of consequences" might sum it up. They are possibly frightened he will end up destitute. I was terrified of being bullied until I left home so I know where it stems from. You sound like a strong 'coper', but I'm not right now. Though I have coped for this long and shifted for myself for many years...I might need to give myself a big kick up the arse.

Rudolfgotarednose - Yes, I've read about 'learned dependence' and it's something I'm determined to avoid creating. I've had criticism for having my DS help in the kitchen with cooking and with dusting but I want him to learn these skills and why they are important. It's also why we place a value on working, so he can see that if you want things you must earn them. Do you think I may need to expect him to do more to help him not be so demanding? That's a genuine question! :)

mrsjay - we've just been talking here about getting 'space' (sounds like something out of a 70s cosmo!) and I think even a little of that may help. I think my mother suffered from her mother taking favourites so maybe there's something passing down there...

Good advice all round, even the harsh stuff! :)

I think your life sounds really intense but when kids are younger it is intense and stressful , I do think getting them to help out and do things is great but they do need to learn to be on their own and not the centre of attention all the time , if that makes sense , You need a break from him and that is ok to need/want that ,

verytellytubby - we have no local connections and no idea of who would be good. I know it sounds simple, but it's also terrifying to think of. And it's less about "I want a babysitter!" More....I'm simply fed up and resent this and am ranting. And have an ideal that aint going to happen.

Pantofino - he is 4. Probably me ranting not making it clear! He's not a 'terror', but we are tired and stressed and he's as active as any little lad.

mrsjay - I know, I shouldn't feel guilty. My granny used to leave me alone to play in the fields when I was a kid and I had a lovely time. I should not view 'me' or 'us' time as something selfish against him. He might enjoy it.

So, you basically want to act like your arse of a brother and want your patents to run around after you?
And you have ONE child and feel exhausted? Well guess what love, so do we all. No-one owes you anything, if you want a night out, find a reliable sitter. Most of us on here have kids and most of us are exhausted and in demand but I haven't heard many talk like you, like you are the only one and you talk like your parents owe you! Take responsibility and stop whinging.