AIBU giving up my full time funded phd for a healthy baby?

[slowburner]

Today my DH sat playing with our daughter (16 months) and our beautiful healthy niece (6 months), they were giggling together and having so much fun. The two way interaction was amazing, it was really evident they were playing and sharing toys and food (!). The look of happiness on my DH's face reduced me to tears as he was so relaxed and was enjoying the experience of a 'normal' baby.

Despite an easy and amazing pregnancy our daughter was brain damaged at birth because of a mistake during delivery, she stopped breathing in my arms at a few hours old and we spent weeks in NICU with her in a coma. we were warned she would have a poor quality of life, she copes very we'll and is a delight but we certainly haven't experienced parenting as most people do.

I was self employed and after I finished maternity leave start a full time phd. I enjoy it, it is fascinating and will certainly be a career boost after I complete it. But it is full time and I constantly feel I am compromising being a mum and/my work. To be honest I'm not sure what work I could do now if i had to get a job for various reasons, mainly being too specialised and we would have to move to York or Bristol.

But watching my DH, being around my niece make me long to be pregnant. I don't know if I have my priorities wrong, I constantly think all the time about another baby, the normal experience, watching normal development and simply enjoying a child rather than worrying constantly as we do with our daughter.

But am I being unreasonable to consider jeapodising my phd barely a year in for another child. Or is another child, a sibling with all the benefits that will bring to my beloved daughter, more important, after all is life too sho to worry about upsetting my career. Argh. Thanks for reading.

My dd has sen and I felt the same about the 'healing baby'. But was always aware it could go either ways. Ds is lovely though and the normal situation and averageness of ds is soo lovely. I do have a 5 year gap between them though and that has helped me to get dd sorted in school etc (big job as I home schooled for a couple of years). If ds had been around then, I wouldn't have been able to do it as was best for dd but would have to factor in baby as well bviously).

But I did giveup my job which 7 years on now I regret. It's been best for the kids but wish I had moved part time or something - struggled to find something for me a little more instead of giving up so easily.

Based on my own experience I wuld say:

1. Have a bigger gap - maybe plan when she gets to nursery at least/school pref.
2. Have baby for babies sake - not as therapy.
3. Hang on to a toehole of a job at the very least.

I would wait another year and get past the data collection stage so you would be in an easier stage to come back to the PhD. I'm 6 months pregnant and in my third year of a funded PhD and plan to take about 9 months maternity leave and will return to work part-time. Is returning part-time something you could do?
The first half of the PhD was the hardest for me as you don't quite know what you are doing and your work goes off in funny directions. I think if I had had a baby at that point, I probably wouldn't have returned, whereas now I have done the bulk of the work I'm hoping that I will get back into it a bit easier (famous last words!).
I think it would be a shame for you to stop the PhD altogether and as someone else mentioned a larger age gap may be good for your daughter.

Could you do both? I worked until I went into labour and was back full time at 2 weeks and a good few women do do that. That is another option and not to be discounted and could be win win all round. Also if your husband is so great with little babies why not reverse things and have him doing all the child care and you supporting the family?

I gave up a funded PhD with decent salary just as I was starting it as was pregnant unexpectedly with DD and didn't manage to combine work plus DD as she kept being ill and it was all a bit of a disaster. Always meant to go back to it but had another child when DD was 4.5 and then she was diagnosed with dyspraxia, we had moved and I never got back to it.

I set up a small business which kept me busy foe 6 years but was very boring. Closed it down a few months ago after it died a slow death since last election. I spent a few months considering the fact I am the wrong side of 40 with absolutely no chance of going back to research and wondering what on earth to do.

Have now got a job, something totally different but where I get to work at something I do for a hobby. Which is very exciting but I have been incredibly lucky and could be starting 2012 in quite a bleak position.

In your position I would get a bit further along before you start trying for another baby. There are pros and cons for various age gaps and no rights and wrongs .

Slowburner - 'There are so few people to ask at uni, everyone is so damned focused that to broach the subject of pregnancy is impossible.'

I'm a university administrator working with doctoral students. Instead of trying to talk to your supervisors about suspending or intercalating, why don't you talk to your administrator? They often understand the university's policies and regulations better than the supervisors. I don't mean to denigrate academics, but my experience of them is that although they are excellent at providing academic support, they don't always know all the regulations/allowances that can be made. (Supervisors work with maybe half a dozen students; I work with sixty students, so have more experience of the different 'solutions' that can be offered to students who have any kind of 'special requirements' and know the Code of Practice inside out!) There would be various options open to a pregnant woman or new mother at 'my' university, including suspension, change to mode of study, etc., which would still see you completing within the maximum registration period etc. Research student completion rates ARE closely monitored, but I'm sure there would be support for you to continue AND have a baby.

Good luck, whatever you decide.

YANBU in thinking about getting pregnant again and I think you could do both (2nd pregnancy AND phd) if you wanted. I accidentally got pg with DC2 only 3 weeks into my phd . My supervisor was horrified but he got over it and I'm going back in Jan 70% WTE after a year of mat leave. The university and funding body were totally fine about it.

It's always hard to know whether getting pg again is the right thing to do. I agree with all the other posters that you really must want DC2 just because you want a DC2 and not for any other reason, because having a DC2 is tough as it is, but it sounds like you kind of do? And you also are completely aware that there are no guarantees .

I think there are downsides though. I'm personally bricking myself about going back to my phd. If I thought there was no time in my life with one child, I'm shocked at how little there is with two and I can't imagine how much worse that is with a DC with SN. DH works long hours and is often abroad and it's going to be really, really tough meeting the demands of my very hard working supervisor and my children, let alone DH.

But I am going back, partly because I'm a rubbish SAHM and need some time away to be a more balanced individual and partly because it's an investment for the future.

I agree with other posters though, a bigger age gap is better if you can wait. Mine is small and it's tough, physically, emotionally and financially!

Finally, can you not go part time now? It seems a reasonable request, not least as your child has SN. Maybe see how a part time phd works for you and get to spend a bit more time with your DD? 4 days a week doesn't make much difference to work flow iyswim and gives you some extra breathing space to write up

Good luck whatever you decide!

Ps I don't think there is a particularly 'good' point to take mat leave. My friend went on mat leave after the data collection point and came back to find her phd given away to a colleague to write up and having to start from scratch on a different one!!

Thank you everyone, reall appreciate the different angles and especially the help from post grads and university administrator. I currenty have a broken down car with the rac on way, a hungry toddler and a Christmas tree horizontal not vertical.

I shall return once chaos is restored to it's usual level!

I started a second phd when ds3 was a baby. Ds1 is severely autistic and learning disabled. It was fine until the funding ran out (we need me to earns certain amount to break even). Childcare with a disabled child is not easy to organise and although I can work when ds2 and ds3 are around I can't when ds1 is here as well. I have to complete writing up - and hope to be able to manage but not sure I will because there is no month left by the time i'v earned us enough money (I run an academia related business from home). I would never be able to work in academia and balance caring for ds1 (now 12) as bizarrely it's not flexible enough hours wise. I do need super flexible hours though - I think running my own business is actually my only option.

I'm finishing up a phd, after taking a year off from it to have DS.

I think you should finish the phd first (unless there are age concerns). It's only two years or maybe even 18 months before you could start trying, that's really not a huge amount of time to sacrifice if it means a better career setup in the long run.

At the very least, wait until after your mini-viva/upgrade and the bulk of your data collection.

I don't think this has to be an either/or situation, you can have both as long as you are willing to plan carefully.

Finish the course. It will be really hard to do that with two kids in tow and anyway, psychologists recommend a two and a half to three year gap to enable elder baby to have a full babyhood before the new arrival of a sibling.

I agree that a bigger gap is particularly better if there are SEN involved.

Never been in this situation myself, so not 100% on the processes of PhD's.

Do you have good family support or friends who can help? Wishing you and your DH all the best.

I'm not sure a bigger gap is better with SN - kids with SN can become more difficult to handle as they get bigger and faster and it can be a total nightmare adding a baby into the mix. It's only very very recently that I'm able to take the ds1/ds3 combination out alone (ages 12 and 6) and there's still many places I woukdn't even try to handle the pair of them alone. Think the advantages/disadvantages of particular age gaps depends very much on individual circumstances.

I have a DD with SN and gave up work when she was diagnosed and decided not to have any more children so I could concentrate on her needs. I think the demands involved in caring for children with SN can mean that it's better to focus on caring rather than trying to juggle work/study as well, it is completely different from the usual childcare and parenting issues that would normally allow parents to return to work.

DD has ASD, dyspraxia and additional issues and there is no suitable childcare for her at all as she has behavioural issues and needs 1:1 support from a specialist. I've also done a lot of research into her conditions and carried out therapies which aren't available on the NHS, as well as getting her a statement to get her into an independent specialist school (so our LEA pays the fees). I wouldn't have been able to do all of that if I had another child to care for, or deadlines or a job.

OP, your DD's issues are quite different from my DD's, and at such a young age it's hard to predict how much help she'll need in the future but most parents of disabled children find it very hard to access the most suitable support for their children. I know lots of other parents whose children have similar problems as DD but they have struggled to get a statement, DLA or support from NHS/SS because they already have so much going on and don't have time to do all the reading, writing, attending meetings and delivering therapies that have helped DD.

Fully funded PhDs are very competitive and hard to get. I think you should finish first. It also puts you in a stronger position in the future regarding employment options. You could always TTC near the end of your work.

I am trying to get funding for a PhD and would be really hacked off if someone got one instead of me and then buggered off on mat leave and either didn't come back or did really poor work and only just scraped a pass.

Sorry if that sounds harsh, don't mean to be rude

Life with 2 kids is harder. i enjoyed it all so much more with just the one, which isn't an easy thing to admit to people.

I'm an academic with 2 DDs and would also recommend a slightly longer gap.

Also, google 'mothers in science, 64 ways to have it all'. Sorry cant get link on phone, but it is a nice book showing how there is no one 'right' way to combine motherhood and sclence.

I am 35, although not wholly explained the risk of the complications which led to my DD birth injury do increase with age. NExt time I will be closely monitored and most likely a section.

Re timings I did until Christmas Eve feel that it would be best to wait until after data collection, my DD will be about 2 ish, meaning that she is eligible for some free nursery sessions when I return after mat leave, I would also return parttime to write up. My supervisory team have a policy to have 3 research topics, and to submits a paper or present at a conference after each topic is completed. Therefore if I do those prior to giving birth I will have got my work 'out there'.

I also think I should make it very clear I want my next child because I want a next child, the urge is increased because of our situation first time round. I'd ideally love two more to ensures my DD is always looked after. She goes to mainstream nursery 3 days a week, is mobile, self feeds but we do not know what behavioural or learning issues may lie ahead. As has been the case to date however if there is ever the situation where my child needs me or I need to do more physio or other therapy I would not hesitate to take a break from work.

Lots to think about, thank you all for your contributions

Sorry that should read that my DD is about 2 when we consider trying for another, not when I have another!

I am also an academic just returned from maternity leave...

I would like to add that just because the group you work in are super focussed etc. doesnt mean that you have to be. There are certainly more points for working smart than hard. It is perfectly possible to do a PhD as a 9 till 5 job. Where you put the balance point for work and life is up to you.

I have found that most supervisors have a goal driven approach which means that as long as you are getting somewhere in good time, you dont have to work stupid hours.

I do have to work stupid hours on days when I have childcare, currently 4 days. Following a lengthy discussion my DH has agreed to trial a change to his work arrangements giving me another day a week to work which I am sure will make a big difference.

I overlooked a question, 'what would I do if I got my phd but couldn't have more children' I would be utterly heartbroken. The plan was always to be pregnant by the end of the phd, but it is only as I realises how much I love being a mum that I have also realised just how much I want to grow my family.

I think I will aim to get one piece of work completed and move house as well, we are currently miles from my family and friends after a house sale fell through, and then reconsider. The 64 women in science is fascinating, thanks for that parietal, it's quite telling how many of them had full time nannies and childcare options, I just have me and DH, and he admits he sees my phd as a hobby, his work being far more important.

Can I be honest?

I'd give my right arm to gt fully funded on my phd. As far as I am concerned, if you give that up for any reason, you need your head checking.

Thats ok, I'd give up my phd and everything else I have if it meant I could turn the clock back and had access to decent maternity care which everyone else around me seemed to have got access to. Seems I needed my head checking to think I'd could have had that.

I got the funding as I have 15 years experience in industry and a vast wealth of experience, i have worked hard but I am openly not an academic. I hope to combine research and industry in an area where both could benefit and I have contacts in place to do that. However I have repeatedly been told that to work in academia I must gain my phd. so I am. but at what expense to my family I wonder.

This is one of those decisions you have to make with your heart, not your head.

(And I think you have already answered your own question )

I am an academic scientist, and a PhD supervisor. I strongly believe that PhDs and work can fit around raising kids. I am recently back from maternity leave, have 3 kids under 4 (ds1 & twins), and no nanny or other family around apart from dp to help with childcare. I agree with a couple of earlier posters:

• it is possible to do a PhD 9-5, but you need to lean to work very efficiently. I do my thinking at home, read papers in any downtime, so that when at work I am either in meetings, writing, or doing work. you need to be prepared to attend conferences though, which will not be 9-5, so you need your dp's support.
• approach your administrator. If you were my student and asked about your options, the first thing I would do is ask our administrator what they are!

I have two friends who had babies during their PhDs, one of whom emigrated too. Both got great degrees and found our university able to provide flexible options. But I do think you need to consider carefully how committed to your PhD you are. That you are considering giving it up so early rather than looking at ways to make both having another child and studying possible concerns me. I do think it takes real commitment to do a PhD if you are going to be combine it with family life (family being one dc or more).

Another PhD student here, with 2 DC, one in school full time, one in full time nursery, which obviously makes things different, and slightly easier. But, I do find that there is a bit more flexibility doing this than working a full time job. I work every day and in the evenings so that I can do things like drive the DCs to school every morning, and have dinner with them every night. It's pretty full on, but it's not impossible to do both things. It helps to have the support of a partner...my DH is aware that this is my job, and my studentship brings money in that we do need.

I don't think it's an either/or situation, I think you can commit to both, if you are willing to.