To think there is no such thing as NHS dentistry?

[ButWhyIsTheGinGone]

I earn ok money, I know. But I also have a lot of outgoings, and certainly don't have the couple of hundred quid I need to sort out my teeth.

Just feeling a bit sad as someone's put a picture of me on FB and while I'm grinning away happily, my cap on my front top tooth looks so so ugly. Yellow/brown despite me brushing twice a day. :-( Sorry - more of Am I Wollowing In Self Pity?!

I probably not worded it very well! More concentrating on hygiene and cleaning as part of NHS check up. A wait and see approach with advice rather than just drill. Apparently in some countries the hygiene/ cleaning done more regularly than dental check ups and the hygienists very well trained. The dentist who told me this was talking about Scandinavian dentists. Only have his word for it!
He has retired and I am gutted cos have to find new dentist.

I went back after DS1 to the new NHS dental contract in 2006, I managed 6 months before I had to stop, I was so stressed and struggling.

I did locum work to keep my hand in and went back to 3 days a week in a private practice 2 years ago. But even with that due to the economy things are hard and I had to take a pay cut recently. It not what it was in the 80s...(when I was still at school!)

We've got a British born NHS dentist.I've been quoted over £100 for a crown and can't quite believe it.

My dentist is Portuguese and ace. Mental but ace. She's moving practice across country and I'm gutted:(

Mirage, a crown takes time and unfortunately, a dental surgery costs over £100 an hour just in overheads, that's before anyone gets paid. Then there is the lab fee and precious metals (what crowns are made of) have never been so expensive.

£100 is exceptionally cheap for a crown so your sad face should be a happy one. Unfortunately dentistry is a business not a charity.

yup, it's a business- how sad that British dentistry [gov policy] has gone down this route.
Sad faces are in order I think. .

Mirage you should be delighted your NHS crown is that cheap - I was quoted over 600 for one privately!

OP there IS NHS dentistry but what you want is cosmetic dentistry which is very different.

mmm is it purely cosmetic dentistry? Does not do much for self esteem and I am guessing a badly fitting/ old cap could cause damage to underlying tooth? [Just guessing as don't know!]

It's not cosmetic dentistry.

The reason I had to have an (expensive, private, apparently rather complicated) root canal was a badly-done NHS crown. My private dentist told me it is very important to treat crowns with respect. I would now be really worried by something that had gone yellow/brown.

I have to say, I'm seldom 'delighted' by being told I have to pay a lot of money for something that is the dentist's fault in the first place - as it was in my case.

Sorry, should have said not necessarily cosmetic dentistry.

I have finally got a fab NHS dentist, after years of some rather ropey treatment. He's about 12, but really, really good. He offered to repair a bit of the substandard work done by the last few dentists I saw, whilst I was on my maternity exemption certificate. I love him just a little bit.

I have to say, this is the one bonus of having a shit low income as a working single parent. I get free NHS treatment, including dental treatment. There is no way I could have afforded the treatment I've needed in the last few years if it werent for the tax credit exemption card.

It really seems that good dentistry is the luck of the draw reading these posts and from my own experiences. The problem is, is if you get a bad or unscrupulous dentist then they can cause damage that creates extra cost/ problems with teeth. Of course most of the time it is difficult to prove shoddy work as -say with an unnecessary- filling the evidence is destroyed.

I've just been quoted:
2 xrays £16.00
Porcelain Bonded Bridge Fit (3 teeth) £1491.00
Extraction x 2 teeth £60.00
Total £1567.00
That was 2 weeks ago, I'm don't know what to do, I need the work done, but that sure is a lot of money. A rock and a hard place springs to mind. :(

Bloody hell Xbellex. That's a hell of an amount. Are you allowed to pay in instalments? Is that NHS?
I feel for you I really do.

2Boys The dentist asked for half at start of work and half when completed.

I had never been to this dentist before and I did email them to ask if they were taking on new NHS patients they replied yes, however the quote I have here says Private.

I am assuming the work was not covered by the NHS.

I think it should be covered by the NHS. I guess they expect you to have a gap if you can't afford it or just have all your teeth removed for false teeth?
Oh it is not on in my opinion. Talking of which are you going to seek another opinion/ check price is reasonable? I can see that would mean more money though.
NHS really is 'basic' when it comes to dentistry isn't it?

xbellesx I was talking to a friend today who has to have a bridge (had 2 lower back teeth removed) and NHS shes been quoted £250. The NHS prices have bands, top amount expected to pay is £400 I think? So you are definitely not being quote NHS prices.

My ex husband used to pay £30 an extraction private too.

Looks like smokenaces has good info for you Xbellesx.

NHS price system here

so according to this, a bridge should be £204 and if I've read that right, should include the cost of the extraction and xrays?

so that definitely is not a NHS quote, but a private one.

The highest charge on the NHS is just over £200 in England and Wales.

Very interesting comments after that article smokinaces.
Even mentions 'bridge work' Xbellesx.
Still think NHS system is rotten through and through re dentistry.
Sad state of affairs..

costs are different in scotland, at present taking a career break with DD but was NHS dentist for 15 years, I was working in rural scotland every dentist nearly was NHS but there was a huge waiting list as a problem with rural recruitment ( it was the same for GP's too) I had to close my list to new patents as simply could not squeeze in any more people you really can not see 40 patients a day, week in and week out, we did crowns and root canal on NHS but not rows of veneers.

NHS dentistry was only free for about first 12 months of NHS charges were introduced in 1949 it has not been free for working adults since then.

I believe highest charge for NHS dentistry in scotland is about£400 (it was £375 when i went on ML)

there are many excellent NHS dentists but it is a postcode lottery in some places a new patient would get an appointment in a month other places particularily home counties it may take a year or more

most treatment necessary is available on NHS but bridges/ implants root canal on second molarrs or re doing RC veneers are rarely done on NHS

I would have to say though that standard of oral hygenie on average is not good enough, how many people do the minimum of brushing twice a day for 2 minutes ( most people take 30 seconds) flossing once a day or if have large spaces between teeth using interdental brushes? my experience tells me that probably less than 25% of population do this

I think OP does have a case for a replacement crown on NHS what has probably happened is that over time the gum shrinks so about 15 years after a crown is fitted the edge starts to show or if all porcelain which is not completely opaque the underlying colour of tooth shows through and if nerve has died that can be very brown, but it will cost money, the lab fees for good crowns can be £70-150 before you fasctor in dentists/nurse/receptiionist time etc

nearly every dentist is self employed ( and for that matter has been since NHS started very few dentists are salaried less than 10% mostly working in hospitals or with special needs as school dentist has been phased out)and what you pay whether NHS or private has to cover all business costs all salaries pensions contributions/ rent /mortgage safety equipment heating etc etc etc.

Hi SaraTigh,
Who should be responsible for getting the message across re oral hygiene?
Do you think a fear of the dentist [and some people really have had bad experiences] means people don't go to dentist/ get advice? Do you think NHS dentists have the time to give good advice?
When you say that 'NHS dentistry a post code lottery' clearly some people won't go to the dentist for check ups if have to pay private prices or find getting dentist difficult [or won't go as often as they would like].
I have to say that my experiences of dentists has been inconsistent. Opinions on the state of my teeth are frighteningly variable - enough to make me nervous. [you need 3 fillings says one dentist. I got a second opinion and had none and none since for 10 years- touch wood].
As for pricing - it has become less affordable for the 'squeezed middle' who don't get benefits hasn't it?
I want to trust dentists and have had some I do trust. However getting one who sticks around is tough. Most of the dentists I have seen have not been British - Australian/South African/ German- were the ones I had the best experience with. [Where are the British dentists?]
Is it going to improve.. doubtful?

personally I think most people know they should brush twice a day and floss they just don't a bit like people know smoking is bad for them but they don't stop, but the smoker can not blame someone else for not getting message across, I think oral hygenie advice should be better but this and the last government only pay for treatment not sitting talking to patients

I give you a filling i get paid about £15-40 for it, however I chat to you for 15 minutes about how to floss best brushing technique hidden sugars in food and how diet drinks are as bad if not worse for your teeth than normal ones and I get paid precisely £0, which helps prevent you getting further fillings or gum disease, now I might have a hygienist whose time in strictly business terms costs less per hour than mine to do this for you, in fact the best people to do are oral health educators who are generally dental nurses with extra formal training and some can also apply fluoride varnish to childrens teeth too

Some people have bad experiences truly phobic patients are rare, but it is a vicious circle you are scared you have a small hole it's a bit sensitive with icecream you ignore... then sensitivity starts to last longer then it hurts with hot food and tea but it s ok between so its ignored again; a bit chips off the edge is rough but after a couple of weeks the jagged edge wears smooth but food keeps getting stuck, but still ignored as scared ( or possibly no money)

then it starts to ache but a paracetamol every now and again deals with it, it bleeds around tooth when you brush so yuo go more gently on it, more gunk builds up in gum... but gum disease does not hurt so that's ok.... finally it throbs it hurts when you touch it.......... finally the thought drops I must go to dentist..... but then it disappears for a few days so you don't ring, then at a bank holiday or saturday evening it flares up ( it is always these times) painkillers don't work nothing works so eventually yuo get appointment for monday if lucky but by now nerve is permanently damaged you have an infection so you need root canal and so much of tooth is broken you need a crown after, so 3-4 long appointments 3 injections and an NHS bill of £200+.
however if had gone when was sensitive a protective coating and oral hygenie might have sorted it or a worst a tiny filling 1 appointment 1 injection maybe and a bill of £15-40

Waiting for things to get bad is false economy. I do not make rules re payment and i resent being a policeman for potential benefit fraud for DHSS I don't like prefacing treatment discussions with are you exempt? as then you get root canal and crown free but if you pay and are part of squeezed middle you may feel forced to choose an extraction at £15-20 rather than £200 to save tooth.

different opinions can happen a regular dentist may be content to watch a tiny brown spot for6 months as most stay as spots and never turn into holes, but if you saw someone new they would not know your history so may suggest these potential cavities are dealt with right now; if you already had 20 fillings i would not watch spot but fill it but if you only had 1 filling that was done 15 years ago I would definitely watch to see if it progressed rather than treating aggressively

this reply is way way too long, i have pressies to wrap so better go