Really fucked off and almost crying with feminist rage.

[SolidGoldStockingFilla]

Just been listening to Stewart Lee's mostly quite good programme about Morris dancing. He's got lots on the culture and the history and the importance of it, and how it's fun to do, and all that - but all the way through it's about men doing it. And no acknowledgement whatsoever that there is a vibrant and thriving tradition of women doing it too. The one women's team mentioned are the Belles, who are great and I have no problem with their alternative take on Morris, but I do have a problem with the way the programme presents them as the only women's team and their formation as a hugely radical thing.

And yes IABU to expect most of you to give a flying fuck. Except that it is a really blatant example of how women are ignored.

Mabellucyatwell: NOt quite. Auntieestablishment: Pah, you've not seen us then. Or Pecsaetan. Or Offspring, for that matter.

You haven't asked an AIBU question.

At a recent winter fair thingy there were two groups of Morris dancers.

They may have been having a Morris-off.

There were men in white with hankies and jingly bells on their legs, and women (mostly) in crazy multicoloured stuff who shouted "ha!" a lot.

Pretty similar music for both.

Moonferret, I'm not the person who brought up Sports Personality, but if I might jump in: Rebecca Adlington for Andy Murray. My boxing mad brother tells me Amir Khan doesn't really deserve to be in it this year either. So there's an argument for replacing him with Beth Tweddle. She won another European title and led the British team to their highest ever world championship placing by a country mile. She didn't win a global title this year though, which women usually have to have done to be nominated. But hey, neither did Murray.

Of course, if the shortlisting panel included two womens magazines or websites to balance out Nuts and Zoo, perhaps we wouldn't be in this position in the first place. But it didn't. There's a thread about this in the In The News section, if you're interested.

People treat you how you allow them to treat you

Yes LeQueen, I'm sure how you allow people to treat you has a lot of influence on what people choose to put into their TV programmes (in which you do not feature).

Oh yes, synchronised swimming and netball, those massively publicised female sports which completely marginalise men.

How many women support women's sport? Actually go and watch it?

That's what seems to call the shots with Sky, if there's a big interest in it, it gets the coverage.

The BBC doesn't really cover much sport apart from the radio.

I would make a formal complaint that the programme failed to represent the full range of morris dancers and so was unbalanced. After the BBC Sports man personality fiasco where Zoo and Nuts had a vote I have lost patience with this casual airbrushing of women out of life / history.

Oh LeQueen really? So we have control over how women are portrayed in the media? We allow men to beep their horns at us as we walk down the street? We allow men to hit us and sexually abuse us?

Was this an Open University program on the history of Morris Dancing, or an entertainment program?

YANBU for the first, your a bit bonkers for caring that much about the second.

LeQueen - I work in a male dominated environment and I can tell you its bloody tiring at times addressing how you allow people to treat you. I worked on a team where the managers thought it was ok to score women out of 10 as they went past, another where a manager asked me to cover the phones when the secretary was away even though I am more senior than some of my male colleagues (I refused), where you can go to a meeting of 30 people and be the only women.

That is why I get fed up with anything that marginalises the role of women because it creates a pervading sense that women are a bit less important than men.

Oh yes Rebecca Adlington... the only reason she stands out to me is because of her ridiculously shamless plugging that she does for Jimmy Choo shoes every time she gets a microphone shoved in front of her..

Youllbewaiting, I watch women's sport. As in, actually go and watch it. And the BBC covers loads of sport, even quite niche specialist stuff. My favourite sport is gymnastics, and they always show worlds, Europeans and the annual Glasgow Grand Prix competition, at a minimum. That's the two important annual events plus the one that's held in GB.

Dillytinsel, it's interesting that you mention netball. England are world champions in this. And yet Team GB were able to put forward a new sport for the 2012 Olympics, and they chose women's boxing instead. Now, I have nothing against women's boxing, but I'd have thought it made more sense to choose a sport that millions of teenage women play, and that Team GB could bring home gold in!

You can feel anyway you want about any issue that you want, that's your prerogative. I'm just wondering why this thinly-disguised AIBU is posted here rather than the feminist board where the views would be in accord wth what you want?

I'm sure this is going to follow the normal pattern of:

OP: Feminist issue AIBU?
posters: YABU (or feminism board posters YANBU)
OP: Do I really have to spell it out to you?
posters: YABU
... ad nauseum. Poking and prodding the bear pit much?

Why? Why do it? It's the same old. If you were really and truly upset by this issue, you wouldn't post it on the area of the board that isn't about serious topics. You can post it - and I can ask, so I'm asking... why? It never ends well, never will, people don't want to be lectured to.

So for that, you are being completely unreasonable - and illogical.

Chaz, you could work in a female dominated environment, and experience exactly the same sort of behaviour. Women discussing the arses of any delivery man that walks through the office.. and you can pretty much guarantee that any job which required a bit of heavy lifting and the man in the office would be expected to do it.

It works both ways!

LeQueen its a bit of a concern if one of those inane twunts is doing your appraisal.

YANBU, Am I right in thinking that before the 1930s revival, morris/folk/country dancing was danced by dancers - male, female and child, just like the hokey cokey or the birdy song is at a wedding disco.

It must be nice to live in a world that is so black and white LeQueen but real life isn't really like that, it's much more nuanced.

Your belief that we allow all things to happen to happen to us (or whatever it was you said) seems very naive to me.

And as with many of your posts that I've read on subjects like this you have an egocentric "It doesn't happen to me or it doesn't bother me therefore it can't be true". Sorry, I'm not trying to be rude, but I just can't agree with you on this score.

squeakytoy I suppose that is the case. My problem was the people doing this were the managers who are supposed to be developing your career. And no the men do not necessarily do the occasional heavy lifting where I work.