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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think this is way too much compensation

76 replies

xyfactor · 16/12/2011 17:13

How can this amount be justified?

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-leeds-16224062

OP posts:
MildlyNarkyPuffin · 16/12/2011 18:34

How can systematically harrassing someone out of a job be justified? She was suspended several times without explanation and eventually fired. For taking maternity leave.

This wasn't some shady employer who has a handful of staff. It was a vast hospital trust.

She has been effected to such an extent that she is unable to work again.

xyfactor · 16/12/2011 18:40

Who said it was justified?
It's the amount of justification that's wrong.
I must be talking to the Cheshire set if this is the opinion some of you have.
Not much encouragement for the working class compensation claims is there?
And she could work again she just chooses not to.
A soldier who loses his legs can't work again.
I wonder what the compo for that is?

OP posts:
xyfactor · 16/12/2011 18:43

I'll help you with some research.

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/harassed-female-soldier-wins-damages-award-1903728.html

She won a tiny amount of compensation but still gave it to the charity help for heroes.

I could find many more cases but considering this is a classless decision by the courts what's the point ehh?

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TheRuderBarracuda · 16/12/2011 18:54

"This poor woman didn't get even a sniff at proper compensation.
It's one rule for the rich and one for the poor."

As Hecate points out it's one rule for everyone based on calculations using their earnings so of course the "rich" or "poor" are proportionately awarded because their future loss of earnings is based on what they currently earn.

But yes I do think the dinner lady was hard done by but procedural unfairness (e.g. not following disciplinary/dismissal proceedings properly) are subject to statutory limitations which discrimination awards are not. And as the Dr was being discrimination on under at least two grounds - her nationality and her gender, then this would have increased the amount hugely.

Having been on the receiving end of bullying throughout pregnancy and maternity leave resulting in me being under psychiatric care and on ADs (no mental health issues previously - union rep diagnosed me with PND because I was upset at bullying line manager's demands for me to attend an annual performance appraisal 5 days after I had given birth - thank god for my outraged and v articulate GP) it can be career ruining. I spent 7 years of studying and passing exams to qualify for my job and probably around £50k (it would be more now!).

I start a new job in January but despite an agreed reference being part of my settlement agreed 6 months ago, my old company have still not provided a reference and ex-work colleagues have kindly stepped up and written personal ones. LinkedIn and the number of lovely recommendations I received from people for my work has also helped so I don't have to rely on them keeping to their agreement they signed. I just can't fight them anymore.

If you have someone gunning for you in a very personal way as it seems with the Dr's case here it is absolutely debilitating. At my worst I was surviving on 15 hours of sleep a week while my 6 month old baby was sleeping through no problems (many parents have to but apart from the extreme stress I should have been feeling grateful my DS turned out to be a good sleeper). My hair has still not properly recovered (alopoecia) and the more I discovered about her campaign behind the scenes (necessary for my case) the worse it got. They even placed her in a hotel 5 minutes from my home so I felt I was trapped in my home while on maternity leave in case I ran into her.

You'd be amazed at what one individual in a massive multinational corporation can get away with if they're determined and nasty enough. I still run the risk of seeing her everyday but I go a sufficiently long circuitous route out of my house if I have to go past the hotel during the days she works in town still. I am still highly sensitive and am concerned that a passing comment/roll of the eyes about having children or me needing to get away to pick up my son at my new job (I was far more robust before) will knock me back to the shivering wreck I was just because I now seem to have trigger points after her constant nasty comments and more shockingly, concerted efforts (she fiddled redundancy scoring figures telling me I had scored less than anyone else and then when it came to it the scores could not be produced because I never was scored - she was so sure she would get me out she told my assistant to bin my files 2 weeks before the redundancy selection/application process was announced!) to get me out. I did not received even 1% of what the Dr has but I can't help but hope that regardless what compensation was given, the people responsible lose their jobs.

AliBellandthe40jingles · 16/12/2011 18:55

I totally agree that soldiers don't get enough compensation. A close family member of mine was injured so badly that he has had to leave the Armed Forces and IMO the amount of compensation was shocking.

That doesn't mean that this Dr has received too much

ilovemydogandMrObama · 16/12/2011 18:59

Why can't she return to her profession? It's been proved that she was dismissed unfairly, and while she would obviously have to retrain to a certain extent as her qualifications would be stale dated, why can't she be reinstated? It's a remedy for unfair dismissal, and seems to me that a consultant would be more interested in the career aspect than a settlement.

MoreBeta · 16/12/2011 18:59

The reason is because of this:

"As a consequence of that dismissal the claimant has lost her role and status as a hospital consultant, as we will ultimately find, she is never going to return to work as a doctor, a profession which she, in common with both of her parents, cherished together with all the status that that brings with it."

She has been compensated for a life time of lost earnings.

HecateGoddessOfTwelfthNight · 16/12/2011 19:00

cheshire set? I assume that's some sort of dig?

fyi, I grew up on a sinkhole council estate in a mining village, with a miner for a dad and a cleaner for a mum.

So if you think I'm some middle class mummy, think again.

The facts are the facts.

Dismissal for breaking your contract is not the same as being systematically bullied and hounded over - years - reading it again, this campaign lasted years, not months. Years of sexual and racial discrimination, years of bullying, years of lies and false accusations culminating in giving her a nervous breakdown and possibly meaning she'll never work again is not the same as getting sacked for a breach of your contract.

Now, if we're talking should the dinner lady have been fired for whistleblowing? Hell no. The parents had a right to know what had happened and imo, the school behaved disgustingly. But technically, she breached the contract. They did not follow correct procedure in dismissing her. They did not hound her for years, systematically break her down and ruin her life.

If you think that the two situations are in any way equal in terms of their affect on the person, then I question your perspective.

TheRealTillyMinto · 16/12/2011 19:02

the dinner lady was not sexually and racially discriminated against, the doctor was. soliders get v bad compensation but they are handled differently than other employees so not comparable under the current systems.

the problem with Employment Tribunal is that you have to pay your own lawyer so very quickly you are looking at £10k+. so if the dinner lady had been sexually and racially discriminated against, she would likely have found justice out of reach.

good that the doctor could get justice though! also - the people who bullied her worked for the NHS......wtf

happygilmore · 16/12/2011 19:03

You're right xyfactor that a working class person is unlikely to ever get such a high award, as it is based in large part - liked Hecate said - on loss of earnings. Therefore, you need to have been earning a lot previously to get such a high award. That's how tribunals work in this country.

If you think that's wrong you're directing your ire in the wrong direction, personally I think it's correct - surely a tribunal award is aimed at restoring a person (financially at least) to a position they would have been before the unfair dismissal?

xyfactor · 16/12/2011 19:04

MoreBeta

So she was compensated for loss of status in that particular role?

Just like every other victim of harassment.

She's got 4.55 million reasons why she doesn't need to go back to work now...unlike other women who have been victims of the same abuse at work.

Did you read about the soldier in the link above?

I wonder if she's working now?

OP posts:
xyfactor · 16/12/2011 19:05

HecateGoddessOfTwelfthNight I apologise for my turn of phrase it was uncalled for.

OP posts:
TheRealTillyMinto · 16/12/2011 19:06

people who take the NHS to court are unlikely to get another job with...the NHS.

one terrible consequence of this is that NHS whistleblowers, looknig after patient safetly, can end up with wrecked careers. private eye always seem to have an NHS story.

(NB: i think the NHS is great, some senior staff seems to be the problem)

PointyLittleDonkeyEars · 16/12/2011 19:07

I am wondering whether the level of compensation was set so high in part as a warning to other people who might be thinking of trying the same thing - and I would agree with that. People like the disgusting clique of doctors in that hospital need to know they cannot get away with victimising someone for having a baby.

I wish however that the law allowed for some proper justice - i.e., have the compensation be paid by the people who caused the problem in the first place. There should be legislation in place that allowed the employer to take the money from the wages of those responsible, leaving them with no more than National Minimum Wage until the sum was paid off. That would focus a few minds...

Diamondwhite · 16/12/2011 19:09

Fwiw I am a doctor and I live in Cheshire but I think it's way too much money. I was stunned when I hard it on the news and new that this would be e story before I opened the ops link.

HecateGoddessOfTwelfthNight · 16/12/2011 19:10

It's simple maths.

To make it as simple as possible so I can type it! -

If you are hounded out of your job and you will never work again and you earned £100 a month and you are 50, then to compensate you for your lost earnings alone would be £100 a month x 15 years.

If you are hounded out of your job and you will never work again and you earned £5000 a month and you are 40, then to compensate you for your lost earnings alone would be £5000 a month x 25 years

So the more you earned - the more your compensation would be.

It's nothing more than an equation.

It aims to put right the wrong that has been done to you - your actual loss. Someone who is on minimum wage has not had the same potential earnings loss as someone on millions. That is not 'devaluing' them, it is a simple fact.

What should always be the same is the element paid for emotional suffering.

happygilmore · 16/12/2011 19:11

I think the reason she won't work again is because of her mental health, it looks like from the coverage that her husband (also a dr) had to give up his work too to look after her and her son. What an awful case, does anyone know if the perpetrators were fired?

NinkyNonker · 16/12/2011 19:11

A warning and recompense for a career earnings lost, pensions etc and a mental breakdown.

Dinner lady was sacked because she broke the terms of her contract, she was in the wrong. She was sacked for a reason, but was recompensed because they didn't follow procedure, you cannot compare the two and saying the only difference is class is more than a little ignorant and just reeks of chips on shoulders. The doctor trained for x years to get to that position then was screwed over for nothing bar sexism.

xyfactor · 16/12/2011 19:13

Hectate.

This is a record amount of compensation.

And she could still work again but in a lower position.

My point is why didn't/couldn't the working class soldier who's whole career was ahead of her get that type of compensation? She was offered a pittance.

OP posts:
HecateGoddessOfTwelfthNight · 16/12/2011 19:13

Thank you x. Nothing annoys a working class girl more than being accused of being middle class Wink and I in turn apologise for any snippyness.

We can debate the issue without getting personally mad at one another, can't we?

HecateGoddessOfTwelfthNight · 16/12/2011 19:15

I think her mental health has been so totally destroyed that she will never work again.

happygilmore · 16/12/2011 19:16

xyfactor how do you know she can work again? The report says she has poor mental health, it may mean she is not well enough to work (neither you nor me know on the information given).

xyfactor · 16/12/2011 19:17

We can hectate :)

I just can't get the disparity out of my head.

A poster mentioned that if a case like this gets heard again the tormentors should have to pay real recompense I kind of agree with that.

OP posts:
TheRuderBarracuda · 16/12/2011 19:21

Oh and xyfactor - if you want to make it a class issue my dad was a bus driver, my mum did home-piece working sewing together stuff and occasionally courier work when she could get it. I grew up on a council estate. I vote Labour (begrudgingly but Tory would just never be an option) and I worked 20+ hours a week throughout university and postgrad study to fund my qualifying (btw that's not the smallest violin in the world you can hear - I know I am still very privileged in many, many respects - the emotional support of my parents being a huge factor, being white and born in this country being huge advantages as to whether I succeeded in my chosen career). Even then I only finished paying off all student accrued debt when I was 32.

How do you know this Dr didn't do the same or much much much more to get where she did? But of course she should be denied the same access to the law or even the same law as available to the dinner lady - that'll serve her right for 'getting above her station'. You're displaying the kind of ridiculously simplistic inverse snobbery that keeps working class people in their place. Long live the Tooting Popular Front and all that.

NinkyNonker · 16/12/2011 19:22

If she could work again at a lower level...but why the bloody hell should that make it ok?

The soldier story is different again, hardly the runaway case this sounds...the MoD won most points and she declined a far bigger settlement.