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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

to not pay Cm anything over christmas holidays

29 replies

festi · 13/12/2011 15:03

should be in CM section I know, but im just off out to soon collect dd and go to shop on the way so wanted quick responses, but do CMs normally charge over christmas holidays?

My dd is 2 afternoons a week £20 term time, then half term 2 days £64 I dont use CM end of term hols so she charges me a retainer of £37.

there is BH on tuesday 27th december a term time and half term usual day, so will not be chrged for that, but that should then quater my retainer, no? so then if expected to pay 2 week retainer it will be only about £27 rounded down?

however my Cm is a bit disaorganised about payments and it seems to take me to begin to ask and then negotiate what I am paying, I get 85% paid in student loan so happy for her to charge reatainer etc, as she doesnt charge another mindee reatiner. I have kept records so far of what I have paid and she has not, that doesnt bother me TBH. however would it be unreasonable for me to suggest no payment over the xmas holidays? I dont want to offend or put her in an awkwatd position if she does not agree?

What do other CMs do regarding time off for holiday periods?

OP posts:

Sirzy · 13/12/2011 15:10

What does your contract say?

For days you are choosing not to use them then you should pay whatever the contract says with regards holidays surely?

WhoWhoWhoWho · 13/12/2011 15:14

So you have '"rounded it down" to £27, and now want to 'suggest' no payment at all?

Pay what it says in your contract.

kasbah72 · 13/12/2011 15:14

Did you get a contract? It should state clearly if there are periods of non-payment or of reduced payment.

My childminder asked for full payment 50 weeks of the year unless she had 4 weeks notice, at which point she would ask for 50% of the daily charge.

The other 2 weeks were her own holiday and we had to pay her 50% for those.

My problem was that I was also self-employed and didn't get paid if I didn't work so I found it increasingly hard to justify (and afford!) paying out so much extra during holiday periods when I wasn't working or if we couldn't co-ordinate our annual holiday with hers.

The main sticking point was that she wasn't able to combine my before/after school hours over my usual 2 days in to a single full day of childcare (actually 1 hour less but I didn't care about that) so that I could work. She wanted the kids at the same time of day for the same hours OR to pay for a full day care. That was impossible for me when I could get holiday club for £17/day instead of her £60/day charge.

Unfortunately she wasn't happy to offer a term time only contract at that time so we had to part ways.

hth
K

fuzzynavel · 13/12/2011 15:15

I paid my CM 52 weeks a year. The norm is as you employ them, they have the same rights as every other worker. 4 weeks paid annual leave.

Original poster

festi · 13/12/2011 15:16

I dont have a written contract with her we sat down and made a verbal contract, I suposse but I have not signed anything. I wasnt sure about holiday as I supose I felt at some point she has unpaid holiday? and we would negotiate this, however as the negotiations seem to fall on me I dont want to either be in a possition of making an unrealistic assumption but also in light that she does not charge others when they dont use her, I also dont want different conditions as others just because I am entitled to claim the 80%, im happy with the flexible arrangement so far if it continues to work but just want to make sure we are making reasonable requests, if that makes sence.

OP posts:

LizzieBusy · 13/12/2011 15:16

I pay my CM 52 weeks of the year. This person minds your children, you want them to feel good about you !

Original poster

festi · 13/12/2011 15:18

ok so other cms charge charge in holiday time. seems fair enough

OP posts:

SantasENormaSnob · 13/12/2011 15:20

You don't employ them they are self employed.

My cm doesn't charge for her holidays but does for ours.

She is open the none bank holiday days over christmas. I will pay her as normal but the kids won't be going at all as dh is off work. I value her and appreciate all she does so this seems fair to me.

Original poster

festi · 13/12/2011 15:21

anyway who I have not suggested anything I have asked wibu based on what others do chrage. before I go and see her.

OP posts:

RitaMorgan · 13/12/2011 15:30

She doesn't have a contract? Is she actually Ofsted registered?

I pay half fees during both mine and my CM's holidays.

MixedUpKitty · 13/12/2011 15:33

I'd be very worried about the lack of contract.

My contract says I (as a CM) close for 2 weeks over Xmas and 2 weeks during the year for which I don't charge. Anything else is full price.

needtogetalife · 13/12/2011 15:34

oh fuzzy you are going to get the CM linch mob in saying that CM's are employed lol

MollyTheMole · 13/12/2011 16:03

cms arent employees though, as you dont pay their tax and NI surely?

HoHoOpotomus · 13/12/2011 16:49

I too budget to pay CM every week of the year. Wish I could pay her double!

bigshinydinosaur · 13/12/2011 16:58

I pay my CM an average per month, she doesn't get paid for holidays and I pay 50% when my son is on holiday from her.

Each Cm can basicaly set the terms of their employment and if you sign a contract you are contractually obliged to honour those terms.

Original poster

festi · 13/12/2011 17:06

Im not worried about the lack of contract she is only doing 2 afternoons a week and half term, she seems very reasonable and dd likes her. Anyway, I offered the retainer and she insisted half retainer xmas and easter and full retainer summer hols, so I will buy her a nice gift for her and some craft things for her to have for the children.

thanks for responces.

OP posts:

anewyear · 13/12/2011 17:14

Childminding is a business, We are Self employed, we therefore pay our own Tax & National Insurnce,
We all different and all have our own terms and conditions on our contracts.
If you have no contract as I belive you wont be covered by her (if she is a Ofsted registered Childminder) Public Libility Insurance

I personally will not work BH's, so Im not available therefore you dont pay me.
You would also pay me for your holiday, your or childrens sickness or if you just decide not to send them for whatever reason,
However yu dont pay me for my holiday or sickness etc..
As I say tho, we all have our own T's & C's, this were a contract comwes in hady so you know exactly where you stand..

anewyear · 13/12/2011 17:15

Comes in handy...even

Original poster

festi · 13/12/2011 17:27

she is definatly ofsted registared etc as I had to provide details of dd and sign consent forms, maybe I did sign a contract but dont remember signing any payment conditions and I dont have a copy of the contract if I did. also I provided her reg number to student finance.

OP posts:

Alliwantisaroomsomewhere · 13/12/2011 17:35

Whether an agreement such as this is written or not, there is a contract between the CM and the parent. A contract such as this does not have to be in writing to be binding. The problem with verbal contracts is that the terms are difficult to prove. So for everyone's sake it is best for it to be written.

I cannot see how OP's child cannot be covered by CM's insurance because their agreement has not been recorded in writing. I believe that that information is wrong.

Whether you not you have to pay X or Y or Z, OP, depends on what you agreed with the CM - whether or not it is in writing.

fuzzynavel · 14/12/2011 16:10

Needto - Oh blimey, where's me tin hat!

anewyear · 16/12/2011 20:07

Alliwantisaroomsomewhere - You already said verbal contracts are difficult to prove..
Because i really dont understandwhy anybody, WOULDNT want to sign a contract, covering themselves against queries like the OP has or otherwise??

I have rung the NCMA, with regards to this query (Im a Ofsted Registered Childminder, with the NCMA) and would be intrested in their reply for future reference.
However their line was busy and had to leave a telephone number, hopefully will hear back in the next few days....
Will post as soon as they can advise me..

Flisspaps · 16/12/2011 20:11

Payment conditions are written into the NCMA contract and your CM will have to have kept a copy of it, so call and ask for a copy yourself ASAP.

Flisspaps · 16/12/2011 20:13

And she will need to keep details of what she has been paid in order to do her tax return (going back to your OP) but that's her problem, and not something Ofsted are interested in

spiderpig8 · 16/12/2011 20:13

You wouldn'r be sending your DC on a end of term holiday so i don't see why the retainer would be scaled down?

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