To wonder how some students expect to get jobs!

[A1980]

I'm putting my flame resistant jacket on here and my padded jacket (to deal with knives)!

But, following on from the thread about how the "hell" some people get into university and the current employment crisis for young people, most bizarre experience.

I am an associate solicitor as a good well known law firm. Someone I vaguely know (youngster, aged about 20 who lives near me) asked me if they could put me in touch with their friend who is a law student and looking for some experience. I don't mind at all, you have to start somewhere and happily handed over my details with absoultely no promises (as it's not up to me to hire, the decision rests with department heads but I an certainly put in a good word with something to go on). I said to tell his friend that I would need a good CV from him and to know what he's looking for.

What I got baffled me. Bear in mind I am:

1. A stranger
2. He knows I am a solicitor
3. He is looking to gain expereince by getting in contact with me.

I got an email from him. It started "Hi ya Aleson" [I think he meant Alison]. That is already way too informal IMO. Then the body of the email has virtually no puncuation and consists of about 2 sentences even though it's several lines long. It refers to his "mate" giving him my details. Then it goes on to say he has no clue waht area of law I practice in but wants to arrange something with me for experience.

There is absolutely no information whatsoever about him and what he wants. No CV attached. In short sod all about him.

When I used contacts or made enquiries as a student, my emails and letters were as follows:

"Dear Mr / Ms, I was given your details by XYZ regarding the possibility of arranging work experience at your firm. Please find attached my CV for your kind perusal. I am currently a student at XYZ and will graduate in XYZ. I am interested in XYZ areas of law, etc, etc. I have had the following experience: [list it and the dates.] I look forward to hearing from you, Kind regards, XYZ"

The above you can't go wrong with and that's what I would expect.

Please tell me, is this standard these days or AIBU and unkind? I fail to see how his email is meant to impress anyone and have me or anyone else think him serious coontender for experience in a firm of solicitor.

OP I think you are being very kind to even consider giving feedback, I would have deleted and forgotten all about it. I get a lot of work placement requests and simply do not consider any that do not have appropriate covering letters/emails.
Since the quality of application varies so much, even between students from the same universities, I can only assume that Harriet is correct and some students cannot be bothered to use the careers advice and training that is available to all.

MenopausalHaze Sun 11-Dec-11 22:01:54

Jaysus winterfox - you're banging on and on and on about 'posting it all over the internet' as if the OP had published his name, address, mother's maiden name, vital statistics and how many times he's had a wank in the last week. Give it up already! I have to say you sound just a tad unhinged if that's all you can post over four pages.

What she said

The thing is that there are students out there prepared to listen to advice about their application and prepared to put care into it. Why would you give time to someone who doesn't. Since this is a general discussion, not feedback to the chap concerned A1980 can post what she likes.

I don,t think spelling and punctuation need to be perfect on a chat forum.
They do need to be when making a professional approach.

Indeed. I'd already been pulled up before and I responded to it. I am not the best typist. I check, check and check again when I am at work. I couldn't care less about my typing errors on this website. There is a big difference.

I never applied for a job or wrote to a client with Hi ya first name.

I wouldn't instruct you :)

I would decline instructions from you

I doubt she'd expect you to on a chat type forum

I work in the library of a large Russell Group university. You can't move in our department for falling over posters for CV writing workshops, careers fairs, seminars, workshops etc all designed to help students in improving these very skills. As a library assistant, we are also often asked by students to assist with setting out correspondence and giving advice on correct address, tone etc particularly for overseas students who may not have English as a first language. The opportunities are there for students to take; if they ignore them, then it's a pity, since job hunting is now very competitive. I should also add for balance that some of the students are extremely keen, very well organised and are on top of these issues so I certainly wouldn't say it's generational necessarily, though I do notice that some of the issues taught in the workshops are ones that I would have previously expected to have been covered in 6th form.

Unfortunately, email does seem to be less formal and this is an emerging issue for business convention. Personally, I am a stickler for formality, at least initially, but I realise that this is by no means universal and for instance many of the academic staff have a more casual/informal approach with students than I would have had - but I freely confess to being 46 and therefore ancient!

"our great education system has provided what exactly? lol"

I have a just turned 16 year old in year 11. He managed to write a nice polite email to get his yr10 work experience placement, with one of the leading photographers in the country.
He has applied and got a saturday (and every day over christmas job ) with a national electrical store and he also managed to get a second job at our local sports centre.
He knows to have a professional email address, not sure who told him that but it may have been his WE placement. He is also dyslexic so his spelling can be decidedly dodgy., so he asks for help with that aspect.

It's not difficult and just takes a bit of common sense, so am a bit shocked that a 20 year old who has obviously gone through the business of applying to 6th form and then university has no idea how to write a simple email of introduction.

It's a pain to get paper copies isn't it? - you can't forward them easily.

I dunno if that's always true, just strikes me as obvious as most of my job apps have stated email attachments are required.

I think emailing 'Hi X' is just rude and it's absolutely fine to reply that his initial email was completely out of line ... what else can be done?

^ We don't mind either way Mary.

In some ways an email is easier to miss as we receive so many that it's easy to skim over it and not go back to it. Once it's no longer highlighted you can forget all about it.

A written CV and letter gets put in someones post tray, but along with several million others. So it's easy to miss or take alot of time to deal with also.

Perhaps the most important thing is addresing it to the correct person. If an job application goes to our HR department, it will be read and dealt with if it's by email or post. If it gets sent anywhere else, it may not end up with HR.

Check who to address an application to first.

Most jobs seem to be application online nowadays, even DS's saturday job was an online application.

OP I think you are being very kind to even consider giving feedback, I would have deleted and forgotten all about it. I get a lot of work placement requests and simply do not consider any that do not have appropriate covering letters/emails.

I'm going to give the person feedback about it as if they are serious about a career in law, they need some advice. Also his friend will no doubt ask me if I've dealt with it and it's best to say it to him rather than fob his friend off as I'm pretty sure she will ask me about it.

I do think people vary in how easy they find it to be organized/to work out what's the right language.

But some things are beyond the pale and the OP's email is one of them!

You're being very kind to your friend/this lad, A1980.

maryz -sorry, if my post confused you please ignore it! I am at that time of night when I'm posting without thinking and I just posted off the top of my head remembering what job apps specified when I did them quite recently, but of course that is not a very good measure of anything.

Sorry!

A1980: "They taught letter writing skills when I was at secondary school. It really is inexcuseable"
Agreed. Nothing fancy, just along the lines of the polite example you gave.

LDR his friend isn't a friend of mine either. I just see her around alot and she will ask me. So i may as well just cut it dead and give some feed back.

Email should be fine Mary. Almost everything is these days.

maryz - you and me both, in our dotage! I was just talking my brother through applying for a course he wants to do, and told him it was considered polite to find out what someone's title is (ie., Mr or Dr or Prof). He was dumbfounded, apparently, by the idea that writing 'Dear John Smith' might be seen as a little rude! And he's four whole years younger than me, cheeky little sod.