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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To wonder how some students expect to get jobs!

135 replies

A1980 · 11/12/2011 20:32

I'm putting my flame resistant jacket on here and my padded jacket (to deal with knives)!

But, following on from the thread about how the "hell" some people get into university and the current employment crisis for young people, most bizarre experience.

I am an associate solicitor as a good well known law firm. Someone I vaguely know (youngster, aged about 20 who lives near me) asked me if they could put me in touch with their friend who is a law student and looking for some experience. I don't mind at all, you have to start somewhere and happily handed over my details with absoultely no promises (as it's not up to me to hire, the decision rests with department heads but I an certainly put in a good word with something to go on). I said to tell his friend that I would need a good CV from him and to know what he's looking for.

What I got baffled me. Bear in mind I am:

  1. A stranger
  2. He knows I am a solicitor
  3. He is looking to gain expereince by getting in contact with me.

I got an email from him. It started "Hi ya Aleson" [I think he meant Alison]. That is already way too informal IMO. Then the body of the email has virtually no puncuation and consists of about 2 sentences even though it's several lines long. It refers to his "mate" giving him my details. Then it goes on to say he has no clue waht area of law I practice in but wants to arrange something with me for experience.

There is absolutely no information whatsoever about him and what he wants. No CV attached. In short sod all about him.

When I used contacts or made enquiries as a student, my emails and letters were as follows:

"Dear Mr / Ms, I was given your details by XYZ regarding the possibility of arranging work experience at your firm. Please find attached my CV for your kind perusal. I am currently a student at XYZ and will graduate in XYZ. I am interested in XYZ areas of law, etc, etc. I have had the following experience: [list it and the dates.] I look forward to hearing from you, Kind regards, XYZ"

The above you can't go wrong with and that's what I would expect.

Please tell me, is this standard these days or AIBU and unkind? I fail to see how his email is meant to impress anyone and have me or anyone else think him serious coontender for experience in a firm of solicitor.

OP posts:
winterfox · 11/12/2011 21:32

no excuse? i am ashamed that we want to help our students so little if mn is anything to go by

casperella · 11/12/2011 21:33

You have my every sympathy, OP. I work for a Big 4 and our recruitment team spend lots of time doing workshops in CV writing, interview skills, etc, via Uni careers services. Sadly we still see poor/inappropriate written communications on a regular basis.

We also don't get a huge amount of applications for our graduate vacancies, and are still struggling to fill positions which should have started in April. This shocks me when we are in recession...

(insert rant beginning "in my day...")

But what can you do apart from give him some feedback and maybe a second chance to apply properly with a CV?

Original poster
A1980 · 11/12/2011 21:35

but i wouldn't post work related stuff (especially if i were a solicitor!) on here

It is not work related. He is not a client or an employee of mine Grin

OP posts:
ilovesooty · 11/12/2011 21:35

i am ashamed that we want to help our students so little if mn is anything to go by

Oh come on. These days they get cossetted and spoonfed from the word go. No wonder they get to university in many cases as helpless as children. In years gone by you knew that you wrote professionally to professional people, even if you weren't going to university.

ShellyBoobs · 11/12/2011 21:35

i myself would have just replied to him

I'd have just deleted it, personally.

No one I'd deem worthy of employment (or placement) in a graduate-entry role would need to be told that an email like that is incredibly inappropriate and misplaced.

The person could resend that email any number of times, with appropriate and correct content, without it ever changing the first impression gleaned from the initial contact.

winterfox · 11/12/2011 21:37

well the last three posts really do sum it up!

glad my industry is a little more human and community based

would have to write someone off at such a young age

winterfox · 11/12/2011 21:38

hate! not have

Original poster
A1980 · 11/12/2011 21:38

no excuse? i am ashamed that we want to help our students so little if mn is anything to go by

You clearly feel stongly about this and that's admirable. But IMO there comes a time when excuses run out.

We are talking about a 20 year old man who is at university looking for a job in one of the top professions. He isn't a child. They taught letter writing skills when I was at secondary school. It really is inexcuseable. A 20 year old university student shouldn't need to be told how to write an appropriate job application.

Haven't chekced for typos again Grin

OP posts:
ilovesooty · 11/12/2011 21:40

We are talking about a 20 year old man who is at university looking for a job in one of the top professions. He isn't a child. They taught letter writing skills when I was at secondary school. It really is inexcuseable. A 20 year old university student shouldn't need to be told how to write an appropriate job application

Exactly.

winterfox · 11/12/2011 21:43

i just wouldn't write them off at 20, 20 is young - what if his education wasn't on par with others in his range

it's kind of sad to write people off so young imo and to paste their messages on the internet isn't on imo

guess money doesn't equal manners or being fair

Original poster
A1980 · 11/12/2011 21:44

glad my industry is a little more human and community based

How would you feel about a medical student who lacked basic skills? All warm and fuzzy and willing to give them extra help? There comes a time when excuses run out as I said.

OP posts:
grumplestilskin · 11/12/2011 21:46

CV/letter writing is LEARNT and those of us who've been exposed to it take it for granted. It is no reflection on a persons abilities or potential, just their background/education so far that is all.

winterfox · 11/12/2011 21:47

writing a basic letter to be a solicitor isn't the same as taking blood come on

and yes i think being warm and fuzzy would help someone learn in the long term

or shall i just post every application on here for you all to gloat at

winterfox · 11/12/2011 21:48

being a solicitor isn't exactly furthering the human race is it

maybe starting your own little haven would be good for all mankind Grin

ilovesooty · 11/12/2011 21:51

Yes, it's learnt and there is plenty of support out there. Students who get to 20 years old should have accessed that support. In rare cases where it hasn't been available (and I'm struggling to imagine how it wouldn't be) they only have to have enough initiative to look online.

Original poster
A1980 · 11/12/2011 21:51

being a solicitor isn't exactly furthering the human race is it

Not physically as with medicine. But we sure do help it socially. I could give a million examples of the admirable things we've done but I wont as I don't discuss our work here.

OP posts:
winterfox · 11/12/2011 21:52

only applicants then Wink

ilovesooty · 11/12/2011 21:54

They get "warm and fuzzy" throughout education now. It stil leaves many of them unable to cope when they have to be a bit self reliant.

Original poster
A1980 · 11/12/2011 21:54

only applicants then

Nope. he's never applied to our firm formally. Emailing my home address doesn't count as an applicant. He's also not responding to a job application, never been interviewed. He's not an applicant either.

OP posts:
cherrysodalover · 11/12/2011 21:56

Well it is a tough lesson but I would discount him from that e mail and tell him so. He will not do it again and there are many good students out there who would appreciate how to draft an appropriate request.
It communicates he is lazy, inappropriate and clueless and he needs to know that, and that he has blown it on this opportunity.
Too many good ones out there to invest your time in this one.
He needs to learn the hard way.
I had straight Astudents miss out on places for medicine due to an unseen grammatical error on their Uncas.
They learnt.......forced into a gap year and to then take more care on their Uncas form the following year.

ilovesooty · 11/12/2011 21:56

If I received an approach like that (formal or informal) for any job from a 20 year old I wouldn't give it serious consideration.

cherrysodalover · 11/12/2011 21:57

Read Ucas forms.....

SugarPasteChristmasCake · 11/12/2011 21:58

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

winterfox · 11/12/2011 21:59

well i guess unless you tell him the poor bloke will never know

i just would have emailed him back with my thoughts rather than post it all over the internet

Hardgoing · 11/12/2011 21:59

I teach students and whilst most are very good, some are totally inappropriate in the way they interact with others and in their behaviour (texting in the middle of a seminar etc.) This student will have have ample opportunity to go to classes to improve English, had careers advice, had skills development seminars, had someone at uni to check their CV, it's all laid on a plate for them. I wouldn't bother giving this student much feedback, just politely reply you don't have anything to offer at the moment and their email appeared a bit informal.

I get approached by students wanting to work with me in the future. Those that are really stand out good are stand out good by age 20/21, everything they do is already high quality, they understand tone/levels of formality and are clever. We have made the mistake in the past of taking on those not quite at the highest level and it has been a big mistake, they take masses of input and the results are not good.