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Original poster

To think Julian Assange should grow a pair and just go to Sweden?

81 replies

AnonyMaw · 05/12/2011 17:28

I know for sure if I was accused of a crime I would want to have my opportunity to defend myself.

I think Assange should just stop weasling around, and go to Sweden now, to put his side of the story to court.

Or am I missing something?

OP posts:
lottiegb · 06/12/2011 12:33

Elephants, if it is a set up to enable extradition to the US, he only needs to arrive in Sweden, not be found guilty.

Certainly rape cases hardly ever get to court here but either the Swedish system is different, or, in this scenario, has been leant upon to 'make the most of the opportunity' provided by these complaints.

If you're saying the Swedish case is a set up in itself, to damage his reputation, well hasn't it?

Kladdkaka · 06/12/2011 12:37

'He should go to Sweden to face the rape charges. The Swedish authorities can then decide whether to agree to extradition to the USA. As they are signatories to the European Convention on Human Rights they won't extradite him if there is any chance of him facing the death penalty.'

Really? Care to gamble your life on that?

Thinks about Mohammed Adel Abu Ali, handed over to Libyan authorities by Sweden and tortured to death 3 weeks later.

ElephantsAndMiasmas · 06/12/2011 14:07

Klad - sorry I don't understand the thing about being tried by MPs. Why would that be?

thunderboltsandlightning · 06/12/2011 14:26

If they were going to set him up they'd have done it with child porn - something that people actually object to men doing - unlike rape of women, which nobody except the victims and a few feminists actually gives a damn about.

Use a bit of logic please. His reputation hasn't been damaged, all the misogynistic lefties think he's innocent.

Kladdkaka · 06/12/2011 14:39

They're not MPs, they're political appointees who assist the judge in making a ruling. Why? Dunno, although a suspect it's because of attitudes to independence and the state. Here the blind acceptance of what the state says is quite worrying.

ElephantsAndMiasmas · 06/12/2011 14:42

Yeah thunder that's what I was going to say earlier before I got distracted - it would have been child porn, easy to "plant" and something that people would actually hate him for.

Whatmeworry · 06/12/2011 14:50

If they were going to set him up they'd have done it with child porn - something that people actually object to men doing

Except to extradite him or go to court they would have to provide hard evidence of the child porn. All you need to produce with rape is an accuser or two.

Use a bit of logic please. His reputation hasn't been damaged, all the misogynistic lefties think he's innocent.

I think the Straus Kahn affaire proves that a well timed rape accusation can be deadly....

Of course, everyone is supposed to think he's innocent till proven guilty surely? Oh wait...

thunderboltsandlightning · 06/12/2011 14:55

DSK and Assange both prove that some lefty men think their positions entitle them to a free pass to rape.

"Of course, everyone is supposed to think he's innocent till proven guilty surely? Oh wait...2

Nope, another bit of sloppy logic there WMW. Innocent until proven guilty is a legal concept simply meaning that an accused person isn't supposed to be punished for a crime until they've been proved guilty in a court of law. It isn't a general rule that means we all switch our brains off and refuse to recognise predatory sexually male behaviour. Nobody on the outside of the court process is "supposed" to think anything - we can make our own minds up thanks very much.

But good to see that you'd like to tell us how to think.

thunderboltsandlightning · 06/12/2011 14:56

"I think the Straus Kahn affaire proves that a well timed rape accusation can be deadly...."

He looks pretty alive to me. Testyria much?

lottiegb · 06/12/2011 14:58

Thunderbolt, I'd understood them to be real complaints, so either entirely coincidental or providing convenient material to utilise, for anyone wishing either to discredit him, or, more likely, to move him to a country that might perhaps be more likely to extradite him to the US.

Either way a conviction isn't necessary but taking up his time and energy and providing a reason for people to question his credibility, as many have, isn't a bad interim result. He is seen as quite a hypocrite now, due to this and cageyness about allowing anything about himself to be published, by people who weren't his most fervent supporters but accepted, to some degree, that his leaking of sensitive material represented an unstoppable trend and may now be more circumspect about the motivations for releasing such material.

If it is a set up to get him to the US, all that's needed is something likely enough to stick to get him to Sweden.

Whatmeworry · 06/12/2011 15:06

He looks pretty alive to me. Testyria much?

Sarkozy's (wo)man now runs the IMF and DSK's career as a political opponent or anything else is pretty much dead and buried.

lottiegb · 06/12/2011 15:09

As an aside, Crabapple99 'grow a pair' is very similar to 'man up'. It means 'grow a pair of testicles', cease your feminised ways, thus, having balls makes one decisive, assertive and brave - all the classic masculine stereotypes really.

I find it particularly bizarre when applied to women, as I've seen a few times on MN. Do we really believe we need male sex hormones in order to assert ourselves? Reminds me of the time, when rowing (boat, not arguing) many years ago, when our newish male coach turned to eight of us lifting a boat and said 'come on, you're doing that like a bunch of women'. We stared back as one. So, masculine ways of doing things = good, feminine = bad equals a lot of nonsense in my view!

lottiegb · 06/12/2011 15:14

Should have included 'morally courageous and willing to be called to account' in that list. Masculine characteristics obviously. I'd have thought JA might do better to adopt a bit of 'feminine' insight and empathy but hey ho.

ElderberrySyrup · 06/12/2011 15:16

I agree re 'grow a pair', Lottie.

Pendeen · 06/12/2011 16:07

To me, it does not matter if he "grows a pair" or not.

It does not matter if he is scared of Sweden's human rights record.

It does not matter if the Yanks are after him or not.

He is an Australian. He is a bloody nuisance here and nothing to do with the UK - we should deport him back to Australia and let them deal with the problems of their citizen.

IReallyHateMyCat · 06/12/2011 16:21

I think saying "grow a pair" when refering to a male just means grow up. Same as asking when their balls have dropped etc. Saying it to a woman might imply she should man up or be more masculine and could then be offensive.

PigletJohn · 06/12/2011 16:33

it's offensive to anyone.

IReallyHateMyCat · 06/12/2011 16:36

in your opinion

Whatmeworry · 06/12/2011 16:43

Nope, another bit of sloppy logic there WMW. Innocent until proven guilty is a legal concept simply meaning that an accused person isn't supposed to be punished for a crime until they've been proved guilty in a court of law. It isn't a general rule that means we all switch our brains off and refuse to recognise predatory sexually male behaviour.

Go tell that to the newspapers getting sued by Jo Yeates' Landlord, Thunders, and then come tell me I'm wrong again.

Granted they're unlikely to go after you (unless you are fabulously wealthy) but it's more than a legal concept.

But good to see that you'd like to tell us how to think.

Yes - I stand for presumed innocence....its a shocking idea, but I hope it catches on.

MildlyNarkyPuffin · 06/12/2011 16:43

What he has done with Wikileaks makes him a prime target for a politically motivated set up. That doesn't mean he isn't a rapist. The two aren't mutually exclusive. And those who know him don't seem that surprised by the allegations.

It is possible to be a champion of freedom of information and a sleezy creep who gets off on forced intercourse.

slug · 06/12/2011 16:54

I think you have been taken in by his own propaganda. At best he is a figurhead for an organisation, he has very little to do with the actual day to day running.

It's an interesting question though? Would the US bother to extradite and execute the PR man?

thunderboltsandlightning · 06/12/2011 19:13

You're confusing publishing libel with an individual having an opinion about someone's guilt or innocence WMW. They aren't the same.

AlwaysWild · 06/12/2011 20:50

What a funny state to be in, no opinion of any news event that might involve a trial, just perpetual readiness for jury service.

Whatmeworry · 06/12/2011 21:15

You're confusing publishing libel with an individual having an opinion about someone's guilt or innocence WMW. They aren't the same.

By writing something on here you are technically a publisher, as MN will argue it is merely a conduit and thus not liable for your views (they were sued a few years back by an author and argued that)

As I said, no one is likely to go after you here, but bear it in mind if you ever say things on a forum where you are identifiable - you may hold all sorts of views, but be careful where you post them.

dancingmustard · 07/12/2011 01:23

I'm just amazed some posters are positively screaming his guilt when the facts as I know them are thin at best for the prosecution witch hunt
There are murderers we can't send back to their own countries (People who have committed murder here) because they wont get a fair trial.
The Swedes and Americans have hopefully lost out on this one.