To not except partners apology.

[teenagedirtbag]

To cut out the extra long background
(www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/1352331-To-be-REALLY-angry-with-Dp-sorry-another-xmas-complain)

Since then he has said sorry he has promised he will

Go on a cooking course so he can cook the Xmas dinner
To take the kids out every Saturday so I can go shopping or have a lie in or whatever I want to do
He has already canceled plans with my mum
To take me out for a meal
He has bought me flowers and a necklace and and little teddies all of which have love poems on them.
Comics and silly bits and bobs for the kids

But I STILL haven't said he can come back cause everytime I ask him why he is sorry or why does he think I got upset he says
' cause I spoke to your mum '
but says nothing about not wanting to see me or Dc's xmas day.

Since telling him to go I have had really bad nightmeres and haven't been sleeping because I'm alone and some stuff happened a few years ago and the person who did this ,ran from the law and has not been caught.

But when I talked to a friend about this she told me to just take him back then
so AIBU? or is Friend?

Stop trying to make him guess why you are so upset and tell him. If he does not know which aspect of what he has done has so upset you, how can he be sorry about it? The whole "well if you don't know, I'm not telling" attitude is not for adult, meaningful relationships.

Is he apologising because he just wants everything to go back to normal, or is he apologising because he really understands why what he said was so hurtful?

If my husband did this, I would be questioning if I really knew him at all. To not want to be with me and our dc at Christmas of all times, would go straight to the core of our relationship and I would be wondering what's the point of being married to someone who doesn't seem to want to be with me and our family. It's not just a crass comment - it goes to the heart of the relationship.

I must admit, I would also be wondering if there was someone else on the scene, because what he said just isn't normal.

Thing is, OP, you won't know until you talk to him properly. I'm sure he is sorry that he upset you, but you are entitled to a proper explanation. I wouldn't want him back either, until I'd had that proper explanation and was satisfied that he was being truthful.

How many women would leave their home though just because their partner asked them to because of arguments over Christmas arrangements? I think making someone homeless over this is mad and think if men kicked women out of the house for the same trivia some women kick men out for there would be uproar.
People should be able to sort these sort of arguments out whilst still living together. If it's a joint home he is as entitled to be there as the OP who is treating him as her lodger, but with fewer rights.
Making him play guessing games is childish. Talk about things properly and get back together or separate properly but stop pissing about.

It's misleading to describe it as "an argument over Christmas arrangements," though, because it wasn't just a matter of "Shall we go to your family or mine?"
He wanted to get rid of his DP and their children for Christmas so that he wouldn't have to bother with it or them. What does that say about his feelings for them? That's hardly trivial.
So I can understand why the OP is so upset and why she would feel kicking him out was justified.
However, it doesn't seem like a lot of communication is taking place at the moment. He doesn't know why she was upset and she doesn't know why he didn't (or doesn't) want to spend Christmas as a family.

Okay thanks
(sorry should of warned you all about my spelling issues)
So I shall arange to meet him tomorrow and we shall talk.
thank you helpful MNers

I have to say, though - surely it's fucking obvious why the OP is upset, why should she have to spell it out to a GROWN MAN? . If I was the OP, I wouldn't expect to have to tell him what was so upsetting - I would expect him to KNOW.

1. He knows the OP doesn't get along with her mother.
2. He made arrangements on her behalf without involving her (v.controlling IMO).
3. He then decided he didn't want to go with the OP - so doesn't want to spend Christmas with her.
4. He wanted time to 'chill' which the OP wouldn't get (v.unfair).

Why should the OP take him back if he doesn't understand what he has done wrong? If he doesn't understand what was so wrong about that situation, then he's not going to see a problem in doing it again in future.

Though, If it was me, I might just be sooooooo pissed off with his apparent inability to understand WHY I was so pissed off, and may have shouted it, very loudly, until he was in NO DOUBT as to why I was THAT unhappy, and didn't accept his apology.

And anyway - as I tell my dc, sorry on it's own is not an apology - an apology is to show that you know WHAT you have done wrong, and how you have learnt from it. If I wouldn't accept 'sorry' on it's own from a dc over 4/5yo without them stating WHAT they were sorry for - I certainly wouldn't accept it from an adult! I don't accept ANY apology where the apologiser hasn't LEARNT from their previous actions.

Im with Huntycat on this.
I suspect what the OPs DH was thinking is "i will pack her and kid and unborn twins off to MILs so that i can sit on the sofa pissing it up all day and not lift a finger to help with the Chrissy dinner or the kids."
Whats worrying me is if he was thinking this....."Theres twins on the way and they will be hard work so i want one more chrimbo as the child/pissing it up/ doing what i want/ (delete as appropriate) which makes me think and might make the OP think that her DH doesnt view family life as favourably as she thought he did. Something like this will have made her question her own judgement as well as question the relationship,her whole belief system and her partners beliefs. He basically wanted her to do all the hard work and effort on xmas day. He seems lazy and disrespectful to me as well as devious for going behind the OPs back to arrange stuff with MIL.

What HuntyCat said. And I really wish people would not go on about spelling issues, spelling schmelling, don't be so bloody rude.

But fundamentally this is about grandstanding or sorting things out. Sometimes things that really upset us do not appear very obvious to our partner (and vice versa). We might think that they should, but that's not always how it works. The best relationships are based on communication, not guess work and although we may each of us think 'he should know how I feel' especially if you have been together for a long time, none of us are mind readers.

Unless there are other issues going on (and there may well be) it seems a slightly trivial issue to finish a marriage on, and this looks to me like a separation with the potential to be permanent, because if the partner hasn't realised what it is he needs to say after a week of being kicked out which he appears to be very unhappy about I don't think he will without some prompting.

I'm not saying his plans weren't hurtful, although I'm assuming he was just taking about the family sending a few hours with the OP's mum, not the whole of Christmas.

But if the OP has to TELL him why she was so upset - How can she trust that any apology she gets afterwards is a sincere apology, where her 'D'P has actually thought about the issues, and why it was so upsetting? If she has to spell it out to him, there is the risk that he will just say sorry without realising WHY this was so hurtful, and WHY it has got the OP questioning their whole relationship.

He obviously wants to carry on being the child in this relationship, and any apology he gives if he has to be TOLD what he is apologising for, will be to try to continue the status quo, rather than actually sitting down and THINKING about why the OP is so upset.

I would just be unable to believe that the apology was sincere, and would change the partners selfish behaviour, if I had to TELL him why to apologise. So yes, it WOULD have me questioning whether or not I felt able to continue the relationship.

What I mean by 'continue the status quo' is that there is the risk that the OP's partner will continue to discount the OP's wishes (they had previously discussed having Christmas at home), he would continue to leave the hard work of Christmas to the OP, he would continue to expect to be able to have Christmas away from the OP, he would continue to put his own wants above the needs of his family.

I couldn't and wouldn't put up with that level of selfishness, and I wouldn't expect to have to tell him what he had done wrong - I would expect him to sit and think long and hard UNTIL he had worked it out. And if he couldn't work out what he had done wrong - then in his mind, he HASN'T DONE ANYTHING WRONG. Which would, to me, be a SERIOUS red flag of extreme selfishness, and I would HAVE to seriously consider my options.

he bought you teddies with love poems on? Are you both 14?

Be a grown up and stop hissy fitting at each other.

Well, sounds like he was a complete arse, but he is trying very hard to make it up, so meet him halfway and explain to him exactly why you're mad at him. It is odd that he can't work it out for himself, but some people can be a bit thick about these things. Does he realise that Christmas with your mum is not relaxing for you?

Also, you mention something awful that happened a couple of years ago - seems you may still be feeling very insecure and threatened as a result, which may partly explain your nuclear meltdown reaction - not to say that you're not justified in being mad, but it might not ALL be your OH's fault. Have you had any counselling or support to help you recover from what happened before?

YBVVVVVU

Poor guy. He said something silly without thinking, just a moan I'm sure, and maybe he's feeling nervous about the twins. Tbh, I wouldn't want Christmas with just my kids!!! It is good to get out for a bit, and he's used to that. Ok, it wasn't the best. But not worthy of chucking out. And now he is trying to make amends the best way poss...

I think you're being a bit hormonal. I can sympathise. I had twins and it was the worse pregnancy ever! Hope all that goes ok, by the way. And just forgive, can't you? It's not like he's had an affair or even gone for a lap dance. But I don't think treating him like this is going to help him want to be with you on Christmas day!!!

Oh dear.

Obviously i do not know Op or her husband but did he try to arrange the Mother's Christmas meal so they can TRY and sort their issues out.

If my wife kicked me out for the same reason as the Op did, I would not go back. yes he has done wrong and also sounds like he is doing allot to sort out.

I disagree with huntycat's idea that if you have to tell someone why you are upset then their apology is meaningless. Surely if you spell out why you are upset then they understand what the argument is about and can apologise properly.
I had a friend who used to make me play "if you don't know why I'm upset I'm not going to tell you, you have to go away and think about it" when I was about 10. I presume she got this from her mother. I think It's a very disfunctional and nasty way to carry on.
If someone upsets you then you tell them, immediately, why they have upset you and then they can apologise as they know what they are apologising for.
Adding hurdles to this process seems mad to me.
No bloke would send me off to relly visit on xmas day whilst they sit at home watching tv all day, but if one attempted to do so he would know exactly why I was unhappy immediately and I would want to know exactly what he thought he was playing at and why he didn't want to spend xmas with me and the kids immediately.
I don't really do arguments but when something annoys me I don't fester, I get on with getting the issue sorted out, if we can't sort the issue out and decide to go our seperate waysd so be it, but I can't imagine sending my husband to his mum's until he can think up the appropriate words to apologise to my satisfaction.

2rebecca - I 100% agree. It just comes across as spiteful, petty & childish. If i was the Op's husband, i would tell her i would not be coming back. You never know, if he cooked Christmas dinner and burnt the turkey, she may throw him out again.

I think there's nothing wrong with explaining the bit that hurts you the most, and that you want to know why he wanted to do that. It's important to know what he was thinking, not that he just now knows that it was wrong. We assume he was thinking "yay, a day to myself" but was that really his plan? Make him say it, make him say why he didn't want to spend Christmas with his DW and DC. His answer to that is far more important than hearing sorry. Because if it's "I don't like spending a lot of time with you." then Christmas is the least of your worries.

Sorry but i cant help wondering what the majority reaction would have been on here if it had been the OP (mother) who said she didnt want to spend xmas day with her DC rather than the OPs DH (father)!

My reaction would be the same. I cannot understand why anyone would not want to be with their children and with their partner.

I accept that you disagree with me, but IMO, if you have to TELL someone what they have done wrong, then it SHOWS that, to them, they haven't done ANYTHING wrong.

Because if they thought they had done something wrong - then they wouldn't need telling WHAT they had done wrong. And if they DON'T think that they have done anything wrong, then that shows an amazingly high level of lack of thought for the other person involved.

In the OP's case, if I was the OP, I would first of all have expected my DP to stick to the arrangements we had made together to spend Christmas at home with the dc. I would also have expected him NOT to have gone behind my back and make alternative arrangements without my input. I would also have expected him to think about how I wouldn't enjoy spending Christmas with my mother, as he would KNOW the issues there. On top of that, I would expect him to know how it would feel to know that the person who is meant to love you doesn't want to spend Christmas with me. I would have an AWFUL lot of unmet expectations in this situation, and I would be reeling at the level of selfishness my partner was displaying, and would be very concerned as to whether that selfishness was going to carry on after the birth of the twins.

If someone is upset with me - I will sit down and think of nothing else except how I may have upset them, until I KNOW why they are upset, and I understand their upset, and can make a PROPER apology, and see things from their point of view. I expect the same from other people in return.

I would have thought it was normal to expect other people, and certainly someone that you are sharing your life with, like a DP, to do this, to sit and think about what they have done to upset someone? In fact - I would expect them to sit and think about the impact of their actions on their loved ones BEFORE they take those actions. Because I would. Am I really that abnormal for taking the time to think through the impact of things like this on other people BEFORE taking action?

I agree with you Hunty.

Given that the dh is so deliberately? obtuse though, the OP will have to spell it out, before she can move forward either way. It should be pretty bloody obvious what he's done that's so wrong. The fact that it isn't is very concerning.

yes, he can (doubtless has done) sit down and try to think why you are upset, what it was he said or did that triggered it, and what the background was (so far as he can recall) and what you are feeling (so far as he can guess) and what all the other things are that are going on inside your head (so far as he can guess) that have made it all unbearable.

You will be extremely lucky if as many half of his guesses and recollections match yours.

You are not abnormal for playing "if you don't know I'm not telling you" but it is not the most constructive route.

Sorry.

I have never played "if you don't know I'm not telling you" or spent hours trying to work out why I've upset someone. I'm more inclined to phone them and ask what is going on. If someone is upset it might not be anything to do with me anyway, and I'm not paranoid enough to think that every time someone is a bit stroppy with me it's because I have done something wrong. It could have been something else they are preoccupied with. If I'm aware I've upset someone then I'll apologise if I feel I'm in the wrong (although some people get upset if they don't get their own way and I may feel that I have not done anything wrong and if they choose to get upset that is their perogative and I'm not responding to manipulative sulks).
I don't see the point at all in not telling someone straight away what they have done to upset you. I don't have time to sit around sulking and playing mind games.