100% attendance certificates at DS's school, aibu?

[BoobleBeep]

DS's school has just announced they will be giving out certificates to children with 100% attendance in an assembly at the end of term..... This basically excludes any child who has been ill at any point throught the year, needed dental treatment or has parents who can't afford to take them away during expensive term time. Aibu to be a bit pissed off about this?

"I think it is an important lesson to learn that we are not all good at everything"

But primary aged children are not good at attending school. Their parents are. What an odd 'lesson' to be teaching children, that they are rewarded for something they have not done and have no control over.

Can we please dispel the myth that the only objection to these ludicrously ill-conceived awards is from parents of children who don't receive them, or that objectors think that everybody should receive one? It really is not the case. My own child is not even school aged; my opinions on this stem from my experience as a teacher.

Rewarding children for something beyond their control makes a mockery of all other awards.

Attendance awards are not analogous with competitive sports, as children have a degree of control and input into their sporting achievement in a way that they do not with their attendance (again, am talking specifically about primary aged children).

I have an issue with effort awards (and have ranted about them at length )- but that is for another thread.

"dd wanted to drop out of treatment "to be a good girl""

cory

Perhaps I'm slightly naive here but I just feel that the main reason most children are away at primary school is sickness. These certificates just do not seem to acknowledge the possibility - and that's what bugs me. I think they slightly discourage looking after our health too which must be a bad thing. It shouldn't feel like a battle to take children to needed medical appointments

"Attendance awards are not analogous with competitive sports, as children have a degree of control and input into their sporting achievement in a way that they do not with their attendance (again, am talking specifically about primary aged children)"

agree with this, even if you are hopelessly unathletic, you can practice for the egg and spoon race: you can't practise for "not needing an operation"

I think it is reasonable to compare sporting achievements with academic achievements -you can work on overcoming disadvantages in either fields- but not with attendance.

I don't have a problem with them. DC1 never got a single award throughout school. Despite leaving with 15 amazing GCSE's, each of which was a full grade higher than predicted (A's and A*'s). Reason? Oh well, DC1 is naturally able to really, how much effort went into those grades? Dc1 was never a sporty type, so no rewards there either. In fact the only reward DC1 ever got, was the award for 100% attendance throughout the entire time at secondary school.

Every reward is going to be 'unfair' in some way: if you only reward top achievers, you are ignoring those who work bloody hard and yet never quite make the grade, if you only reward winners at sports, you are ignoring those who are either poor at the sport or unable to take part for other reasons, If yo rewards 'improved' behaviour, you are ignoring those who are well behaved all of the time and if you reward 100& attendance, you are 'not being fair' to those who are off (genuinely) sick or have appointments. There is never going to be a completely fair way of doing it, so we either completely do away with any reward for achievement or effort, or we carry on giving the rewards as they are. However you do it, there will always be someone who shouts 'but it's not fair'.

"There is never going to be a completely fair way of doing it, so we either completely do away with any reward for achievement or effort, or we carry on giving the rewards as they are."

Utter rubbish, sorry. The premise of attendance awards is wholly different to all the other awards you describe, for reasons I keep repeating- primary aged children have NO control over their attendance. All other awards require some input from the child; ie, they are being rewarded for something they have done.

The easy solution would be to stop rewarding 100% attendance, or at the very least stop counting authorised attendance against the 100%. It's not a case of getting rid of all awards

This is not about being fair to everyone.

Each child should be on their own schedule of reinforcement and rewards, IMO- it's not about who else gets the reward, it's about being rewarded for something you have done. Primary aged children are not in control of their attendance, their parents are.

I still found it annoying to see ds be the one who was rewarded for no greater achievement than having good health: it hasn't exactly taught him that you have to work hard to get rewards. He has very much a bums on seat mentality to work and I can't see that that's going to do him any favours later in life.

I have to say I ave found his thread very intereting. It has made me think about it certainly. I might be shifting my position a tad!

Not helpful, but a bit relevant: When I went to a private school, there was a prizegiving ceremony each year. One of the prizes awarded to a pupil on stage was 'most money donated to the school', usually received by a confused-looking five-year-old. It struck me that this should be an award discreetly delivered to the parents, if at all. Utterly bizarre.

I agree that the attendance certificates are a terrible idea. I only ever came across it once, and that was in my own time at school. There was a chart on the wall with attendance stats in the form of colourful pie charts, for each of the classes. My eight year old mind was really confused about why they'd 'reward people for forcing themselves to come in when they were sick', which is the only conclusion I could draw from it.

If people are happy with attendance awards, would they also be happy for sports awards to be handed out not to the children who jump the highest or run fastest or score lots of goals, but for children who turn up for every match even if they just sit around looking bored and can't be arsed to actually run?

Because that is what the attendance awards are about. Bums on seat, not performance.

Personally, I have no interest in sports awards - all my family being crap at sports- but I would find it a bit odd if they did not go to children who actually managed some kind of performance.

I am against these 'attendance certificates' because they ostracise children who can't attend due to illness etc.

I think that teh objective of these certificates is to help tyhe school, not the child. The schools use them to put a subtle pressure on children in order to achieve their 'attendance targets' and satisfty Ofsted etc.

I think they are actually cruel and do not take qaccount of teh emotional damage to children and in teh extreme case can lead to disgusting situations like this where children are excluded from being with their peers in a sort of 'Lord of the Flies' system which is instilled bythe schools for their own advantage regardless of teh emotional harm done to children

It is a tick box mentality for teh benefit of the schools regardless of the impact on children

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1235790/Grieving-boy-barred-schools-Christmas-disco-taking-time-father-died-cancer.html

Cory, I don't think the awards should be given out frequently, but only for perhaps a whole term/ year without absence. I have pupils in my class who don't suffer with terrible health problems, but have historically poor attendance, (60% and heading for a fine in one case). One of my children had chronic health problems, so had more days off than the other. Didn't mean we made a huge fuss about the more robust child getting attendance certificates. My children often tried to wangle sick days, and sometimes I gave them the benefit of the doubt. More than once I was wrong to do so. I can't be the only mum who has been manipulated like this. At school, if a child is having an off day, they may pretend to have symptoms. We duly have them collected, only to be told by the parents that they were, in fact, fine. I don't want unwell children at school, but they can be very crafty. They can be great children, but of course they can also be wily and push the right buttons to get what they want. If some children can be swayed by a certificate, why not? On the other hand, a child needs to understand that essential treatments for illness may take priority. Lots of medical treatments are accompanied by a nice sticker for bravery, etc. When children come back to school with a doctor/dentist sticker they are usually really proud. It's not that different really- rewards for attendance, rewards for appointments. They are all supposed to be positives for the receiver.

'If some children can be swayed by a certificate, why not?'

Because we have seen that many children end up in tears and are made to feel that they are letting the side down by taking time off for funerals etc., which are all events outside of their control.

The jumping through hoops certificate system is not worth it because of the injustice done to a single child as shownb in teh DFaily Mail article above.

Using hoops to sway children's attendance is wrong. If there is a real attendance problem, then sort it out with the parents, don't put children in the position of feeling ostracised and letting the side down.

And most of these certificates etc. are aimed at primary school children who are impacted emotionally, because secondary school children are clever enough to see through the hoops manipulation and rightly scoff at it.

Claig, the headline doesn't quite match the story; the mum in the story gives one version, but the head teacher makes reference to the way the mother spoke to the admin assistant making it impossible to rectify the situation for the little boy. The little girl had other days off anyway. The head teacher would have been minding her words quite carefully, whereas the parent would give full vent to her feelings. The family are in a sad situation, but most teachers and schools are sensitive to these things. So, I'm not sure that the Daily Mail have given a balanced view. And next week they'll be slating parents of absent children annyhoo. I still think that rewards are a positive, and we should be pleased for people who get them. I appreciate that you disagree with me on some of this, but that's fine. Guess that's what debate is for.

(haven't read all the pages,so sorry if anyone else has mentioned this...)

OFSTED likes these initiatives. That is why it happens. Like 'Star of the Week' etc.,

but cory, from the way you describe your two children, surely your daughter is getting recognition or at least achievement in all sorts of ways whereas it sounds like good health is all your son has - so why not let him have his moment of feeling like he is the one who can do something well, even if it is down to pure good luck? A bit of praise and achievement can go a long way imo.

What would you say if teh press tiuned up at your school and asked you about it? Of course you would have some reason or other.

The headteacher also said

She said: 'We have an attendance disco and within that policy we look at the children who have a 100 per cent attendance record.
'It's not instead of all the normal Christmas parties, it's in addition to that as a reward.
'We are trying to build a community that attends school and regards school as absolutely vital for the future.
'It's so strict that, for example, families who have a lot of lates are not invited to the disco because we are committed to getting children here.
'I would feel so sad to take away this reward for excellence because some people are sad that they are not invited.'
Mrs Clarke said the school always supported families that suffered bereavements and was sympathetic to the Watsons' situation.
She said: 'We have gone from the bottom six up 39 places in the league tables of achievement in Bradford.
'We beat the national standard for writing and for science.'

It seems they would have excluded the girl from a fun day with her peers at teh school disco because she had taken some days off. I don't think these little children undesratnd teh cold hard "logic" of these schools hee-bent on meeting their attendance targets. I think pupils are feeling ostracised because they were ill. I think it's pretty scandalous actually, but that is what happens in systems where tick box mentality holds sway and where "sorry, computer says no" rules the roost.

As a simple member of teh public says in teh Daily Mail comments section

'We beat the national standard for writing and for science.' But failed miserably in common humanity.

Same article, same paper. Not my favourite.

I work in a shcool and there are a LOT of parents that DO need a certificate to teach them that attendence is important. And yes you're right, we do have targets to meet for attendence and this is one way to encourage poor attenders to come to school. Often it's the parents who can't be bothered to bring the children to school so if we dangle these carrots the children tend to badger them to be brought.

"100% attendance is not actually an achievement though Kayano.

By all means reward for 100% in something the child has any control over!"

I agree. I think it's a stupid idea. Let's send the children with D & V, chicken pox and other infections to school then.

Whatever, that is some spurious logic...

"It's not that different really- rewards for attendance, rewards for appointments. They are all supposed to be positives for the receiver."

No, rewards are supposed to identify and promote a particular behaviour. They are not just meant to be 'nice things', they are supposed to be used with purpose, not bandied around in such an ad hoc fashion. Children getting a sticker at the doctors are not given a choice between that and a school disco/award certificate/day out- their parents make that decision for them.

"I have pupils in my class who don't suffer with terrible health problems, but have historically poor attendance, (60% and heading for a fine in one case)"

Was the child in question heading for a fine? Or was it the parent? Can you not see how utterly contradictory it is to recognise attendance as the parent's responsibility on one hand and reward the child for it on the other?

And as for children 'manipulating' their parents into having a day off- using attendance awards in this way to improve parenting is absurd.

We all know that parental income has a massive effect on a child's academic achievement; why not reward the children whose parents earn over £40,000 a year? After all, the children can then hassle their parents into earning more and therefore drive up standards, right?

'Often it's the parents who can't be bothered to bring the children to school so if we dangle these carrots the children tend to badger them to be brought.'

Yes. I don't know how to solve it. Somehow pressure needs to be put on teh parents. I don't like the easy way out of trying to get children to badger their parents and there is also teh injustice toi children who are ill and at a young age take these rewards seriously. Just as some are proud to get their certificates, many are sad not to get them, and all because they were ill.

The parents sghould be dealt with. It's a bit like the Pink Floyd song
"hey teacher, leave those kids alone".

And not all parents respond kindly to a badgering child...