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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To wonder how the HELL some people get into university?

600 replies

SayYuleNowSayWhipTheReindeer · 01/12/2011 18:50

I'm currently doing a degree as a mature student alongside work, and am just amazed at the stupidity lack of knowledge some of my fellow students have. For instance, nearly all of them - on a fecking ENGLISH LANGUAGE degree course - mix up "your" and you're", "there" and "their", and use the spelling "definately".

I overheard a conversation today that involved several students talking about how they didn't know their times tables above 5 or 6. Shock

AIBU to seriously wonder if it's even worth doing a degree if this is the standard they're allowing in at the moment?

OP posts:
AntiqueAnteater · 02/12/2011 10:22

any old fool can do a degree - regardless of intelligence

i've always said it and will always say it - and thats as someone who has one

notyummy · 02/12/2011 10:27

Just realised I missed the 'i' out in 'reading' whilst ranting about poor standards in others...

(However it was a job application/university essay it's fair to say that I would proof reading a number times, and getting someone else to do it as well - why is that so hard??)

Pendeen · 02/12/2011 10:29

Your second paragraph is a little unkind to your (former) fellow students because the words " holocaust " and " apocalypse " have more than one use.

Most people, it is fair to say are aware that " The Holocaust " is of course a reference to the Nazi genocide programme(s) however I struggle to understand what you mean by " The apocalypse ."

notyummy · 02/12/2011 10:35

Believe 'the' apocalypse refers to the religious use of it (i.e 'the end of days'.) This is the original source of the word, however it is obviously now used to describe any earth-shattering event.

Am shocked that anyone in Higher Education wouldn't be aware of The Holocaust and it's place in history tbh.

MillyR · 02/12/2011 10:37

Surely the apocalypse is well known as being the end of the world, as described in the bible, with the four horsemen and so on, isn't it?

In much the same way as there have been loads of crucifixions, but when people say the crucifixion, they generally mean the one involving Jesus?

Hammy02 · 02/12/2011 10:42

I thought you needed at least a grade C GCSE in maths & english to even do A levels never mind anything higher? That's how it was for my school anyway. If you don't have a basic grasp of the absolute foundations, how could you progress?

notyummy · 02/12/2011 10:42

To be fair Milly - I wouldn't expect an average 18 year old to know about 'the apocalypse' in the religious context. I would expect them to know about the Holocaust though.

RealLifeIsForWimps · 02/12/2011 10:43

It's quite simple. There are more University places available than there are intelligent people to fill them. Therefore, they have to let some non-intelligent people in to make up the numbers.

Pendeen · 02/12/2011 10:45

Thank you both.

I am not Christian so was not aware of that particular meaning.

As TheLastChocolate said she was from Northern Ireland then, I agree her fellow students should have known the difference.

Hammy02 · 02/12/2011 10:48

RealLife exactly. Nail on the head. It is a shame that hearing someone has a degree no longer carries the prestige it once did. Unless it is in medicine. Or law and from a 'proper' uni.

MillyR · 02/12/2011 10:49

I think an 18 year old should know about both, but I wouldn't have the expectation that they would. I know somebody who teaches art, who was surprised that their students didn't understand the significance of alpha and omega or what aether meant. It is clearly a drawback for people studying Art or English to have limited cultural knowledge of mythology.

Obviously it is much more important that people know about the holocaust.

My point about the apocalypse wasn't that 18 year olds should know what it means, but more that I don't understand Pendeen's point about there being such a thing as the apocalypse, because there is such a thing!

LRDtheFeministDragon · 02/12/2011 11:02

Milly, I agree, I've found it quite hard to explain why that kind of general knowledge is useful. I don't mind if they don't have it at age 18 but I would like to think they'd be happy to pick it up. But I got a shedload of complaints from students that I was teaching 'too much religious stuff' in an English course - and a couple of them told me flat out that they could not be expected to read the (very short) section of the Bible I referred them to. But they needed it to read the literature in question - they seemed to expect that the vast majority of English Lit would be entirely secular with no reference to religious texts and that it was unfair to make them read anything non-secular.

I find this really odd since it's not very long since I did my degree and we all knew we'd have to read bits of the Bible to understand (eg) Paradise Lost.

I really find this sort of thing much, much more of an issue that spelling or grammar. I can almost always understand the argument of a poorly spelt, ungrammatical essay ... I can't give marks to someone who refuses to learn anything to do with the subject!

Actually I think this is part of the problem with people assuming a degree is really about showing you have the skills you learn at GCSE or A Level, taken a bit further. It's not, it's more specialized and so it should be.

hackmum · 02/12/2011 11:05

Everybody I know who works in higher education thinks there's been a dumbing down. Students can no longer spell, punctuate or construct an argument. Their general knowledge is appalling.

ElaineReese · 02/12/2011 11:06

LRD - I had 'do we have to come to the seminars if we're not going to write an essay about the book we're doing that week?'

That's a difficult attitude to engage with.

LRDtheFeministDragon · 02/12/2011 11:13

Elaine - that's a real shame isn't it? I bet they complain about contact time too! Hmm

I think it is tough, because pretty much all the undergraduates I know (friends, students, family etc.) are feeling rotten, because they are paying so much, and there aren't many jobs, and there is this strong feeling that everything has been dumbed down. It's quite hard to motivate people in that situation.

But then they do go and get jobs, and sometimes they do end up writing essays that are really good, and it's not as bad as it's made out to be. I just think it's tricky to explain that the whole set-up is so very different from school and, often, very different from what their parents are saying it will be like.

Pendeen · 02/12/2011 11:14

" I met people who didn't know the different between the holocaust and the apocalypse " TheLastChocolate

Both words have more than one meaning.

Inclusion of the definite article seemed to me to be inappropriate as an example of other students' lack of general knowledge. To me the statement inferred that there was only one use for each word.

I may, however, have misunderstood TheLastChocolate's intentions.

As regards the apocalypse , I was unaware there was a definition specific to Christian belief.

LRDtheFeministDragon · 02/12/2011 11:14

Reading that back I don't mean to sound defeatist ... I'm just very new to all this. I do think a lot of students don't get credit for how hard they work and how good they are.

Get0rf · 02/12/2011 11:15

Ido think that there are lots of courses in poor universities which should not exist - it is simply unfair to fleece students by encouraging them that a degree in gambling studies from Salford uni is actually worth the thousands of pounds it will cost them. It is a great con, and a hideosly cynical legacy of labour's plans to increase uni attendances (and I say this as a labour supporter).

I think perhaps a lot of kids are studying at uni which should not really be there. Hence the dumbing down of courses.

Sorry to go back to dyslexia - but when I studied (also as a mature student) there were loads of people on my course who had dyslexia. I have also worked with many dyslexics over the years, and the companies have supported them in this (even SMEs) as being dyslexic does not impact their core skill, engineering. I have seen some shocking examples of strange handwriting and sentence construction over the years, but it has not negatively impacted their careers. It is also a profession which has a high degree of people with functioning aspergers - it is the perfect profession for people with ASD. Just saying that to make an example that having a SN doesn't bar a successful degree or work life.

MillyR · 02/12/2011 11:15

Is there a book, LRD, that people can read that covers basic Western mythological concepts that are frequently referred to in English Literature and Art?

Anniegetyourgun · 02/12/2011 11:16

"Am shocked that anyone in Higher Education wouldn't be aware of The Holocaust and it's place in history tbh."

Am shocked at your inappropriate use of apostrophe in that statement tbh. Grin

LRDtheFeministDragon · 02/12/2011 11:18

Pendeen - four horsemen of the apocalypse? It's that one. I think there's a fair amount of pop culture references to it (the Johnny Cash song springs to mind).

Btw, I'm not saying there's any reason you should know it, you could get the pop culture without knowing the specific source ... just trying to jog your memory as you might have heard the references without registering?

notyummy · 02/12/2011 11:19

God - I wish there had been when I did my degree - would have saved me loads of research Wink! I did 2 years of Classical Studies at school, and 4 years of Latin (with associated study of myth.) Did help a lot actually. I am not saying that those subjects should necessarily be on the curriculum as a matter of course now though! Mandarin probably more useful, frankly.

Yes - flexibility of mind and application in terms of finding the information to underpin what you are learning is very important. I would rank it up with good spelling/grammar rather than above it.

notyummy · 02/12/2011 11:20

Bugger. You and your apostrophe spotting Annie. Blush

ElaineReese · 02/12/2011 11:21

Milly I can't think of one that would do the whole job, but I'd say Ovid's Metamorphoses, The Bible and maybe Milton should be on every lit student's shelf.

LRD - I do get down-hearted sometimes by some of them - the yawners, the absentees, the ones who email basically wanting their essay written for them, and when you spend an hour replying to all the email that's landed on you whilst teaching 6 hours without a break, and then you don't get a single response, acknowledgement or thank you....

And then I start getting more narky in my marking, and I have to stop and have a break until I feel more charitable! And every so often you get a lovely email thanking you for everything you've done, and you have to hold onto it like billy-oh to sustain you through the emails like this:

hi elainereese i will not be in your seminar today as i have a prior commitment i will make up any work i have missed and please can you tell me if there was anything important in the seminar that i have missed :)

No love, we did nothing of any value, but I'll type you up the fucking minutes so you can read them at you leisure when your hangover's better when your prior commitment is dealt with.

MillyR · 02/12/2011 11:21

Pendeen, it is in pop culture a lot. Perhaps you don't have a particular interest in supernatural/horror films and tv shows, which is where a lot of people would have picked up knowledge of the apocalypse from.