To wonder how the HELL some people get into university?

[SayYuleNowSayWhipTheReindeer]

I'm currently doing a degree as a mature student alongside work, and am just amazed at the stupidity lack of knowledge some of my fellow students have. For instance, nearly all of them - on a fecking ENGLISH LANGUAGE degree course - mix up "your" and you're", "there" and "their", and use the spelling "definately".

I overheard a conversation today that involved several students talking about how they didn't know their times tables above 5 or 6.

AIBU to seriously wonder if it's even worth doing a degree if this is the standard they're allowing in at the moment?

HaHaHa Rock

Probably old enought to be.

Yes LeQueen, I did actually write that. I don't believe that it is essential for studying English at degree level that a candidate can repeat times tables. We are not talking about a vocational course, or in the working world, we are talking about specialising in English. What relevance is it that your dd knows her tables? Unless of course she is also studying a degree in English.

My fellow teenage students are really lovely. I am actually older than most of their parents, and the mother of one was in the year below me at school .
I go out and get pissed with them on a regular basis (even if I have a sneaking suspicion that they are gently humouring tolerating me). They come and crash on my sofa when they've missed the last bus home. There are only 9 of us on the course, and 4 are mature students.

They are not the most academic young people, most of them got in through clearing after doing worse than anticipated in their A levels, and another is severely dyslexic, but most are very hard working and totally passionate about the subject.

I've read an average of 4 books every week for the last 40 years. But the main advantage mature students have is that we just KNOW more about STUFF. Like all sorts of general knowlege that even the least academically-inclined have absorbed through TV, films, newspapers, documentaries etc. And we've also learned how to apply ourselves through work. The mature students have 85 years work experience between us - that represents a considerable boost to our combined group resources (we do a lot of collaborative group work). We really believe that the youngsters learn as much from us as from the lecturers.

I took the American SAT tests the same year as my first A levels
I sailed through the SAT and got into the US colleges of my choice (single year thingy) but utterly flunked my A levels and had to retake
nuff said

Talkin From what I understand SATs form one part of your application. They also expect you to take AP classes and to get into a top tier school you must do well in them. AP classes are not easy. I helped my friends sister prepare for the Chemistry and Biology papers and the material covered was A'Level standard 10 years ago.

Also, the SAT is a multiple choice test on a computer while A'Levels, which used to be essay based, is a paper and pen test. I find multiple choice harder as I am used to the British system of writing essays and I have a harder time reading off a computer screen.

My children cannot multiply and therefore cannot divide. I will not let them write there, their or they're before we've gone through what they actually mean.

I wrote to the year 5's teacher expressing concern that my younger DS couldn't multiply & received an email saying 'we'd except that by now he would of learnt them'.

My parents were so proud that I got into university, but I really think I'd encourage my children to consider other options.

'"The other day I was trying to explain myxomatosis (as you do) and said, "you know, kind of like rabies for rabbits."
The reply was, "What's rabies?"

Am I the only one wondering how myxomatosis is like rabies?
Other than both being viral infections.

DD just applying for university. She already has ABBBB in her Highers (Scotland) and is taking two more Highers and an A level this year. Her preferred courses in Management and Psych are at Glasgow and Aberdeen & she has also put down Stirling, Strathclyde and Newcastle. She might get a conditional offer from one perhaps but I am not holding my breath. Requirements do seem much higher than even a few years ago.

Of course degree students should know their times tables! Basic education should be broad, a basic understanding of mathematical principles is surely essential to this.

As to the clothes horse thing... That's just as a result of drunkenness silly messing around - could happen to anyone. Students at Russell Group universities don't, of course, get hammered and do stupid things, ever!! My son went to a very low rated universityand took a specialised course which I thought would lead nowhere. He now has what for him is a dream job in car design. Am rather at Surf Science for example...

I know that myxomatosis isn't actually like rabies, but I was dumbing down the explanation.

This is why employers tend to recruit in a pecking order down from Oxbridge through the Russel Group etc. although even then they will weed out ruthlessly all CVs which have spelling mistakes, interview by telephone often go hear how people speak and sometimes give maths tests too.

Parents should also ensure children learn their tables. It is sensible as you use them throughout your life. Put off the radio in the car and go through tables with them. Buy those CDs of time tables to music. Work hard at it as a parent and it pays off for the children. Don't leave it all to the school.

'I know that myxomatosis isn't actually like rabies, but I was dumbing down the explanation.'

Do you not think that this is one of the problems? The dumbing down, inaccuracies and pre-chewed nature of so much in education?

Yes but DownByTheRiverside, I'm not the teacher!

I was appalled by the poor educational standard of students on my MA.
All were graduates of one kind or another.
By the end I felt very deflated.
To my mind the qualification really wasn't worth the paper it was written on if such embodiments of utter fuckwittery had it too.

I was a mature student. I completely agree with you OP. And I wasn't a hugely mature student, I was 26, but the idiocy I heard from people on the course....

Those people didn't graduate though.

My brother, my husband and I were the first generation in our families to go to university. We all have professional careers and post graduate qualifications.

I don't think I'd encourage mine to go, unless it was the only way of getting into the career they've chosen. DS expressed an interest in become a Stage Manager a couple of years ago. I looked on careers website and it stated you need a BA (hons) Stage Management to do it.

Really?! Should stage management really be an academic career? Surely that should be a vocational training career.

but once again it comes down to: if you want 50% of the population to go to university then that has 2 outcomes. 1) you are going to devalue the achievements/qualifications of the 50% who didn't go when people end up with the attitude that anyone can get into uni; and b) if university is intended to take the 'cream of the crop' intellectually and academically, then 50% of the population cannot be the 'cream of the crop' so you obviously going to get people at university who would be better suited elsewhere.

15% of people went when I went and it's more like 50% now but it doesn't really matter. Any employer worth their salt knows what to look for, not just the institution and marks in every module throughout (they often ask for not just the 2/1) but also have their own tests and speak to you and look at how you write and look at you.

I don't think the system fails the employers as they have their own checks, but there is a problem that some young people think their 2/2 from an ex poly means they can become the next Governor of the Bank of England as they have a "degree" and don't realise that it matters where the degree is from and all the rest.

DP has just finished his degree in astro-physics.

The only trouble is, he had to ask for my help every single time he needed to do a presentation! Every. Time

He's first-language Welsh. Didn't speak a word of English until he was 5 and started learning it in his Welsh Primary school. So his poor work was always riddled with spelling mistakes, grammatical errors and all manner of nonsense. On a shopping list he wrote for me, he listed an item called "Meiyneis". I actually had to call him and ask him to explain. He meant "Mayonnaise".

I will say, some people don't do themselves any favours in University - some of the stupidity DP encountered was laughable - but if you had seen his writing then you'd have thought he was thick beyond all help.

Of course standards are worse at universities. If the top 15% of students used to go and now that % has been dramatically increased, that will mean some people will now go to university who wouldn't have previously got in. But I do think from interviewing and managing people that standards of literacy are lower.

When I went to university nearly all demanded that you had an o grade in english and maths as a minimum, whatever subject you were studying. A basic level of numeracy and literacy was expected. And I think that is correct.

I do think some students who get their degrees in vocational degree courses with massive help from disability access centres are being set up. They won't get that level of support in a worekplace and so in reality will struggle to get and keep a job relevant to their vocational degree.

For example, through work I have known students studying social work degrees with ongoing severe mental health problems. They have had massive amounts of support to manage their work, deal with their placements, etc. No workplace is going to give them this level of support. When I went to university, people were turned down for social work courses if it was judged that they were not mentally strong enough to deal with the inevitable emotional challenges of actually working in social work. And I think that is fairer to potential students.

stealthpenguin - learning English as a second language is of course harder. But sorry, lots of people who move to England as DCs at a much older age than your DP do learn to speak, read and write English to a very high standard. I think plenty of intelligent people have poor literacy. But I do see your explanation of your DP's poor literacy as an "excuse" rather than a real reason. Sorry to be harsh.

Do times tables have a great deal to do with 'mathematical principles'? I would have thought they were basic arithmetic myself.

I actually dropped out of my degree at the end of 2nd year. There were several reasons for this, but among the reasons was the dissatisfaction I felt with the huge % of people there who really shouldn't have been.

I met people who didn't know the different between the holocaust and the apocalypse and some who were couldn't name the PM or any of the MPs in the Northern Ireland Assembly (this was in Belfast, and everyone bar one person was born and bred here!)

In terms of getting a job in the future I really don't think my lack of degree will hold me back, although I could be overly optimistic....

Agree OP. I did a English Lit and Politics Degree many moons ago, and at that time in Scotland there was a requirement that you had to have a Maths O grade at C or above to get into Uni. This was 'proper' maths - differentiation/integration etc. Arithmetic was a separate exam. I worked bloody hard to get my B in Maths because of how important it was. It was taken as read that your grammar and spelling had to be top notch and was drummed into us at school (along with times tables etc.)

I then in later life was involved in selecting graduates for a well-known retailer for their graduate trainee scheme. It pays v well and is hugely competitive. People were asked to submit a CV, covering letter and photo. They were expected to have a 2.1 and the degree had to be one of a list of universities that the company considered 'credible' - basically Oxbridge plus Russell group and maybe a couple more. In addition a single spelling or grammatical error in either CV or letter and the application was binned without readng on. Inappropriate pictues also meant application was binned.

Some people ae just kidding themselves.